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1 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 22, 2011 2:39:32pm

No shit.

But who on the anti-science wing of the right gives a FF about an American minority.

2 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 22, 2011 2:48:55pm

Excellent post.

3 Achilles Tang  Mon, Aug 22, 2011 3:07:03pm

With respect, all the Americans living on the USA coast are at similar risk, not to mention those living "off the land", AKA farmers, inland in many areas. The only difference is they can't be identified with the same group distinction of "native"; but there are many more of them.

4 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 22, 2011 5:48:14pm

re: #3 Naso Tang

With respect, all the Americans living on the USA coast are at similar risk, not to mention those living "off the land", AKA farmers, inland in many areas. The only difference is they can't be identified with the same group distinction of "native"; but there are many more of them.

Two things differentiate the populations of natives from the rest of coastal residents and farmers. One:

...because of financial constrictions, [they are] less able to prepare for or deal with natural disasters.

Two:

It's also much more difficult for reservation-bound people to relocate when their land is threatened by natural disasters, according to the study.

Those are in the article linked above.

5 Achilles Tang  Mon, Aug 22, 2011 6:08:44pm

re: #4 wrenchwench

Two things differentiate the populations of natives from the rest of coastal residents and farmers. One:

Two:

Those are in the article linked above.

I understand the point that certain groups who are largely dependent on the state already are going to be even more so if their environment changes for the worse.

My point however is simply that there are many more people who are not members of those readily identifiable groups who will also be affected in a great number of ways, and to say that "others" have the resources to move or otherwise compensate is assuming a great deal. If anything many or most of those will likely be looking for aid as well.

I am sorry for all who lose their traditional way of life, but this is something we all face in various ways. This study just chose to focus on easily identifiable groups.

6 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 22, 2011 6:30:05pm

re: #5 Naso Tang

This study just chose to focus on easily identifiable groups.

They are an easily identifiable group because they have a unique set of circumstances that apply to them and nobody else. "They are disproportionately impacted by rapidly changing climates, manifested in ecological shifts and extreme weather events, as compared to the general population, due to the often marginal nature and/or location of many Tribal lands." 1 I think that makes a study of their situation a worthwhile thing to do.

1This is a quote from the executive summary of the study. You can find a link to the .pdf of the complete study there. But I added the emphasis to the word 'disproportionately', because I think that's the crux of the matter.

7 Achilles Tang  Mon, Aug 22, 2011 6:48:42pm

re: #6 wrenchwench

I think it was a study done because it was an easy target. Certainly the far north is exceptionally sensitive to temperature and will show it early, but these groups are far from the only people who live and work there and are affected. They just make better copy because they have a longer tradition.

8 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 22, 2011 6:50:37pm

re: #7 Naso Tang

I think it was a study done because it was an easy target. Certainly the far north is exceptionally sensitive to temperature and will show it early, but these groups are far from the only people who live and work there and are affected. They just make better copy because they have a longer tradition.

Arizona is the far north?

They just make better copy because they have a longer tradition.

I think you're jealous.

9 Achilles Tang  Mon, Aug 22, 2011 9:10:45pm

re: #8 wrenchwench

Arizona is the far north?

I think you're jealous.

I was referencing the Inuit communities of the far north, who are even worse affected and in the same category.

Others, from Arizona to Florida have more options, and to be honest, I think this construct of "nations" within a nation, casinos included, are a throwback to earlier times that have achieved nothing except guarantee state welfare dependence for many.

The word "reservation" is offensive to me. I don't know how it has come to be respected, being a form of apartheid.

10 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 23, 2011 8:50:19am

re: #9 Naso Tang

The word "reservation" is offensive to me. I don't know how it has come to be respected, being a form of apartheid.

I got that impression from earlier comments you made on my Tigua-related Page. It's not just the word that offends you, but the whole concept, right? Although if you think it's the same as apartheid, I think you don't understand it.

11 Achilles Tang  Tue, Aug 23, 2011 10:54:31am

re: #10 wrenchwench

I got that impression from earlier comments you made on my Tigua-related Page. It's not just the word that offends you, but the whole concept, right? Although if you think it's the same as apartheid, I think you don't understand it.

I don't mean to offend, and I didn't say it was the same as apartheid.

The bottom line is what have these reservation, beyond those on oil field or with casinos, done for native Americans? They have maintained some traditions, but hardly an original way of life, which in itself would be impossible in this millennium. Instead they have become dependent on what can only be called welfare or handouts, resulting in the type of problem your posted study describes; 200+ years later.

Where will they be 200 years from now?

12 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 24, 2011 10:14:16am

re: #11 Naso Tang

I don't mean to offend, and I didn't say it was the same as apartheid.

The bottom line is what have these reservation, beyond those on oil field or with casinos, done for native Americans? They have maintained some traditions, but hardly an original way of life, which in itself would be impossible in this millennium. Instead they have become dependent on what can only be called welfare or handouts, resulting in the type of problem your posted study describes; 200+ years later.

Where will they be 200 years from now?

The Makah:

Archaeological research suggests that the Makah people have inhabited the area now known as Neah Bay for more than 3,800 years

The Tlingit:

People have continuously occupied Tlingit territory for thousands of years. Tlingit culture is thought to have originate around 800 years ago near the mouths of the Skeena and Nass Rivers.

The Acoma:

Acoma Pueblo...also known as "Sky City", is a Native American pueblo built on top of a 367-foot (112 m) sandstone mesa in the U.S. state of New Mexico. Settled and built around AD1100, it is one of the oldest continuously inhabited communities within the United States borders.

You want to tell them it's time to move on?

In 220 years I expect them to still be there, perhaps (if AGW makes things more difficult) in a subsistence culture that derives great strength from centuries of living that way, and out-performing other cultures that don't have such strength.


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