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1 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:45:15am

Obama not librul enough for the author?

Frankly, I think Obama’s Presidency has shone a big spotlight on Civil Liberties and what we as American’s consider Freedom, for others.

It hasn’t necessarily been pretty.

2 Gus  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:25:35am

re: #1 ggt

Obama not librul enough for the author?

Frankly, I think Obama’s Presidency has shone a big spotlight on Civil Liberties and what we as American’s consider Freedom, for others.

It hasn’t necessarily been pretty.

That’s not exactly an opposing argument.

3 iossarian  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:46:04am

I agree that, under Obama, the civil liberties situation in the US has deteriorated.

On the other hand, you have to ask yourself what would have happened if McCain had been at the helm, if Republicans had controlled congress for the past 8 years, etc.

At the moment, civil libertarians in the US are, frankly, screwed, but the only way they can improve matters for themselves is by voting Democratic early and often, and hoping that their increased support will embolden that party to return to a more sane position.

Finally, if they think that witholding votes from the Democrats in punishment is a smart idea, I’ve got a vaginal ultrasound wand that might persuade them otherwise.

4 Gus  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:58:30am

re: #3 iossarian

I agree that, under Obama, the civil liberties situation in the US has deteriorated.

On the other hand, you have to ask yourself what would have happened if McCain had been at the helm, if Republicans had controlled congress for the past 8 years, etc.

At the moment, civil libertarians in the US are, frankly, screwed, but the only way they can improve matters for themselves is by voting Democratic early and often, and hoping that their increased support will embolden that party to return to a more sane position.

Finally, if they think that witholding votes from the Democrats in punishment is a smart idea, I’ve got a vaginal ultrasound wand that might persuade them otherwise.

Criticism of Obama or pointing out his deficiencies in these matter doesn’t necessarily imply endorsement of another candidate for his reelection in 2012. There are other libertarian aspects in which Obama excels at such as regarding abortion; stem cell research; gay rights etc. — although remaining rather lukewarm to issues such as gay marriage or legalizing marijuana.

However, there has to be transparency or the willingness to accept the hard facts of his continuation of Bush policies which were once highly criticized by those on the opposite side of the aisle. Right now people fear that if we merely mention these criticism that it will lead to his failure in the election of 2012.

No one president is above criticism and that applied for George W. Bush as much as it does for Barack Obama. We as a people, even those that faithfully side with Obama, cannot continue to self-censor ourselves for fear of harming “our guy.” In that respect, much like the “Stockholm Syndrome” mentioned above, the Democrats are applying Reagan’s 11th Commandment — Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican or in the case Democrat — to their own politicians.

5 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:11:12am

As an indy voter the very concept that somehow the worse his opposition appears, the more free passes he gets on real policy errors is anathema.

Nope. Bad idea.

6 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 1:12:15pm

I can’t agree with the title of this page. President Obama may not have done everything possible to advance the civil libertarian agenda, but to call him a “disaster for civil liberties” is way, way overstated, especially when he’s compared to the right wing alternatives.

There’s nothing wrong with criticizing Obama on these issues, but don’t ignore what he’s achieved in reality to do it.

7 Gus  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:29:45pm

re: #6 Charles

I can’t agree with the title of this page. President Obama may not have done everything possible to advance the civil libertarian agenda, but to call him a “disaster for civil liberties” is way, way overstated, especially when he’s compared to the right wing alternatives.

There’s nothing wrong with criticizing Obama on these issues, but don’t ignore what he’s achieved in reality to do it.

Well, in this case I didn’t author the title and agree that it is a bit sweeping if read alone. As I said earlier, Obama has been very good on other aspects of civil liberties such as “abortion; stem cell research; gay rights” and so on. So yes, I would have to agree with you that it is overstated if we view Obama’s record as a whole.


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