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1 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 6, 2011 10:29:57am

Major US Army bases are the largest communities in the country where almost no one is running loose with uncontrolled weapons and ammunition. There's a reason for that.

2 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 6, 2011 11:27:58am

Given the fact that so many schools are cutting important activities like music, its nonsense to spend a bunch of money and time having millions of kids handling guns, other than its an NRA wet dream. If people want to volunteer to help build their communities, I don't see how issuing guns to them contributes to that; the guns would just attract wingnuts dreaming of a race war.

3 Curt  Thu, Oct 6, 2011 11:58:50am

re: #2 aagcobb

Given the fact that so many schools are cutting important activities like music, its nonsense to spend a bunch of money and time having millions of kids handling guns, other than its an NRA wet dream. If people want to volunteer to help build their communities, I don't see how issuing guns to them contributes to that; the guns would just attract wingnuts dreaming of a race war.

Fact is many people already responsibly own weapons in this country....and have for centuries now. Race war? I've not heard of any besides the Civil War, over States Rights, addressing the slavery issue, but.....no other wars to recount....

4 iossarian  Thu, Oct 6, 2011 12:23:24pm

When a natural disaster strikes, my first reaction is: boy, I hope there's a bunch of people there with ready access to guns and ammunition.

/

5 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 6, 2011 12:23:45pm

re: #3 Curt

Yes, many people do responsibly own weapons, without the government requiring millions of kids to handle them. And the wingnuts talk a lot about another Civil War on their websites. That's what McVeigh was hoping for; he patterned his attack on "The Turner Diaries". And you still haven't given any reason why millions of kids and these militias need guns and gun training.

6 iossarian  Thu, Oct 6, 2011 12:26:46pm

re: #5 aagcobb

And you still haven't given any reason why millions of kids and these militias need guns and gun training.

I believe it's in case of natural disasters.

7 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 6, 2011 12:47:31pm

re: #6 iossarian

I believe it's in case of natural disasters.

Yep when people need food, water, medical assistance and shelter a gun is the first tool that comes to mind to get the job done./

8 ~Fianna  Thu, Oct 6, 2011 12:49:34pm

re: #7 aagcobb

Yep when people need food, water, medical assistance and shelter a gun is the first tool that comes to mind to get the job done./

Well... if you shoot them, they wont need all that pesky food, water, medical assistance and shelter, now will they?

9 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 6, 2011 1:00:13pm

re: #6 iossarian

I believe it's in case of natural disasters.

Sorry, I didn't see your 1st post when I responded to your second one.

10 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Oct 6, 2011 1:12:44pm

re: #4 iossarian

"Ma'am, hold on. We got some fellas here who are gonna try and shoot the flood water back towards the river"

11 Curt  Thu, Oct 6, 2011 1:18:19pm

re: #5 aagcobb

Yes, many people do responsibly own weapons, without the government requiring millions of kids to handle them. And the wingnuts talk a lot about another Civil War on their websites. That's what McVeigh was hoping for; he patterned his attack on "The Turner Diaries". And you still haven't given any reason why millions of kids and these militias need guns and gun training.

How long ago was the Oklahoma City attack? I understand there are small groups, or single people who are extreme. Happens on both fringes, but should we live our lives as though a few bad actors should imply they are all among us, doing bad things every minute?

Down here in my area of FL, we have many drug related murders...not so many hate crimes, in fact I can't recall that hitting the news here in several years (locally related, mind you). All in all, "we" seem to be fine with those murders, but somehow more fearful of a revolution that hasn't appeared.

12 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Oct 6, 2011 1:45:12pm

re: #11 Curt

How long ago was the Oklahoma City attack? I understand there are small groups, or single people who are extreme. Happens on both fringes, but should we live our lives as though a few bad actors should imply they are all among us, doing bad things every minute?

Down here in my area of FL, we have many drug related murders...not so many hate crimes, in fact I can't recall that hitting the news here in several years (locally related, mind you). All in all, "we" seem to be fine with those murders, but somehow more fearful of a revolution that hasn't appeared.

Well, if your understanding of responsible gun ownership isn't performing a crime with it or joining a paramilitary group. I'm more worried about the people who don't know what backstopping is, haven't practiced firing under distracted conditions, and have no training at threat assessment...atop of which there's a cultural fetishism uplifting the individual mandate to make life or death decisions as an exalted right as opposed to a serious duty.

The problem is that you're deemed a good actor until you're not, at which point hopefully nobody is too badly injured.

13 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 6, 2011 3:19:27pm

re: #11 Curt

And once again no reason is given for handing out a bunch of guns and paramilitary training. However, in the spirit of having a serious discussion, I think it would be a good idea for the federal government to give grants to the states to provide jobs in a volunteer community service organization to chronically unemployed young people, training them not in gun use, but useful things like CPR, basic 1st aid, some basic carpentry, and have them organized to report and do useful things in the aftermath of a natural disaster. That will give them something useful to do and some work experience, and provide some stimulus to the economy, because they'll spend the money they earn.

14 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Oct 6, 2011 4:39:39pm

re: #13 aagcobb

And once again no reason is given for handing out a bunch of guns and paramilitary training. However, in the spirit of having a serious discussion, I think it would be a good idea for the federal government to give grants to the states to provide jobs in a volunteer community service organization to chronically unemployed young people, training them not in gun use, but useful things like CPR, basic 1st aid, some basic carpentry, and have them organized to report and do useful things in the aftermath of a natural disaster. That will give them something useful to do and some work experience, and provide some stimulus to the economy, because they'll spend the money they earn.

The long post I wrote got eaten, but the problem with the OP's proposal are many.

One, the state's is potentially liable in anything that happens with a weapon that they hand out, and there's no way of vetting out all the factors that produce a first-time offense involving a firearm. There is the even nastier possibility of the militia mandate...and its material...being misinterpreted and invoked in acts of vigilante-ism and retribution. I can't imagine local law enforcement being comfortable with this set-up, either.

Two, the vetting process would be immensely complicated and large--two background checks a year--as would the logistics of arranging a schedule by which every adult participant in the militia...presumably in blocs...would have two stints of drill practices per year.

Three, the entire assessment system would produce issues relating to privacy and unlawful search, as well as the meaning of conscientious objection.

Four, given the history of US states using authority to disenfranchise groups, the idea of weapon distribution being another opportunity to create legitimate/marginal society membership, this plan is fraught with issues. Consider the above model, paired with current fears about homosexuals, Latinos, or Muslims being "untrustworthy and less American"...or implemented during Jim Crow.

Five, it creates an internal issue any time Federal and state troops have to coordinate, as well as a need for state-level military hierarchy to at very least act as consultants to governors who are now, in effect, small-scale commanders in chief. The presence of Tenther sentiments in state governments does not make that a pleasing prospect.

Six, the setup begs the strategic question of the utility of drill-trained militia with a bounded operation range: what opponent will they fight? The single unlikeliest threat to the US from overseas is invasion and a land war, which is the only utility of a drilled infantry. And even then, their viability as troops is questionable...look at Washington and von Steuben's criticism of their militiamen. Given geopolitics and old-fashioned geography, a state militia looks suspiciously like an force assembled in anticipation of engagement with either another state or the federal government.

15 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 6, 2011 4:45:42pm

About 23 states already field a volunteer militia to support and backfill the NG. (Not all will be similarly organized.) Here in Alabama they are not armed, and provide their own US Army-based uniforms. They report only to the governor and cannot be federalized.


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