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1 garhighway  Sun, Oct 16, 2011 7:32:44pm

Read a bunch of Paul Krugman.

2 freetoken  Sun, Oct 16, 2011 7:45:57pm

Well, the BLS At A Glance page shows data from not very long ago... the roots of Tea Partyism go way back, and even the modern resurgence came about in 2008 with the Ron Paul's reactionary movement to the neo-conservative foreign policy of Bush and then of McCain. And when Obama came upon the stage all the closeted neo-confederates joined in.

Recommend you watch the classic documentary by Adam Curtis called The Century of the Self, to get your thinking moving in more directions.

The best econometric-grapher on the web is CalculateRisk. And, the St. Louis Fed (and all the regional Federal Reserve banks) provide plenty of graphs and data on their web pages.

As for economists proper... good luck. Most seem to revel in being boring, but I guess that is their job. Perhaps that is why the sensationalists, like so many in the so-called "Austrian" school, get so much attention - real economics and real economists are not so sexy.

4 Obdicut  Sun, Oct 16, 2011 8:14:45pm

re: #3 researchok

You're citing the Austrian school as a root of the fiscal insanity, right?

5 Bob Dillon  Sun, Oct 16, 2011 9:57:18pm

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

This Time Is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly

Professor Rogoff and his longtime collaborator Carmen Reinhart . . . know more about the history of financial crises than anyone alive. The pair have just published their broad survey of financial crises, This Time is Different. In an era when most 'analysts' rely on maybe 30 or 40 years' worth of financial history--and then only that of the U.S.--the authors' knowledge of financial crises and government bond defaults going back to the Spanish empire and before offers a richer perspective. -- Brett Arends, Wall Street Journal

6 Bob Levin  Sun, Oct 16, 2011 10:48:37pm

This is a magazine, so back issues, keeping an eye out for relevant articles are a part of this.

IMO, this is awfully good sociology, as the authors of any given article are free to cut across the boundaries of academic disciplines. In the next several months there should be quite a few articles about OWS, which will be placed in a world context. At the very worst, the articles are highly thought provoking.

7 Bob Levin  Sun, Oct 16, 2011 10:54:12pm

And this, also good. Good folks involved.

8 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Oct 16, 2011 11:00:51pm

I starting my thought process with the idea that much of what we see in the Tea Party and OWS is an inability to cope with the Brave New World, as I call it.

The World is in a state of transition, IMHO, that has never before been experienced in such an In Your Face way. Meaning, because of global communication technologies, the rank 'n file have access to information they never have before. We are interconnected, economically and environmentally, maybe more so than ever before.

It seems the old adversaries, the individual and the group, have more at stake than ever before - and we have to find a common ground.

9 freetoken  Sun, Oct 16, 2011 11:19:44pm

re: #8 ggt

... much of what we see in the Tea Party and OWS is an inability to cope with the Brave New World...

I concur. When we look at gatherings self-labeled as "Tea Party" we see lots of grey hair; there is a definite sense that the older generation is very afraid of where their society is going. Fear plays a big part of motivating people to action. Sometimes fear leads to inaction ("freezing in fear"), but at other times it leads to reaction. That's why I prefer to call "Tea Party" participants reactionaries rather than "conservatives".

10 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Oct 16, 2011 11:42:10pm

re: #9 freetoken

I concur. When we look at gatherings self-labeled as "Tea Party" we see lots of grey hair; there is a definite sense that the older generation is very afraid of where their society is going. Fear plays a big part of motivating people to action. Sometimes fear leads to inaction ("freezing in fear"), but at other times it leads to reaction. That's why I prefer to call "Tea Party" participants reactionaries rather than "conservatives".

I have a visual mind --sometimes it get's very difficult to put the images into words. I shall try:

As it is, the Planet (dirt and inhabitants) is one very complex and dynamic organism. Whether we like it or not, nature is violent. It is thru that violence that life is created, destroyed and new life is created. I see a bit of that now, with all the rhetoric and emotion. It's as if all the muck we see in the news is the complex and dynamic of the planet at work -- we've just never seen it in quite so human a form before.

In terms of Evolution --the fittest survive --not necessarily the most moral.

11 freetoken  Mon, Oct 17, 2011 1:34:43am

re: #10 ggt

Hmmm... you've got Gaia crossed with Mothra there, I think.

There has been quite a bit written (in anthropology) about the human need for conflict and how society emerges from that. There was a recent publication of a claim that war indeed has played an important role in getting humanity to where we are today.

Now, what has that to do with economics? I don't know, but I'm sure there's a Ph.D. dissertation lurking in there, or possibly a thousand, to be written.

12 Bob Dillon  Mon, Oct 17, 2011 5:49:49am

re: #8 ggt

It would be good for you to read This Time Is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly as it is the only economics work in existence that is based on fact vs. speculation, opinion or ivory tower thinking. It will provide a stable benchmark to calibrate your own personal bull shit detector which should serve you well.

We have been in uncharted waters financially for well over a decade. 2008 was a wavelet. The tsunami is on the way. Oh! But this time is different?

13 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 17, 2011 7:44:59am

re: #11 freetoken

Hmmm... you've got Gaia crossed with Mothra there, I think.

There has been quite a bit written (in anthropology) about the human need for conflict and how society emerges from that. There was a recent publication of a claim that war indeed has played an important role in getting humanity to where we are today.

Now, what has that to do with economics? I don't know, but I'm sure there's a Ph.D. dissertation lurking in there, or possibly a thousand, to be written.

I think it has a lot to do with economics. A capitalisitic system is adversarial -- Vanderbilt is the example that comes to mind. Socialism seems to try not to be, but humans are humans and someone always end-up on the top and a whole lot of people end-up at the bottom, depending on how well they manipulate the system. The Black Market always survives.

If Economics is the study of the use of resources -- humans compete for resources.--no?

14 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 17, 2011 7:50:20am

re: #12 Bobibutu

It would be good for you to read This Time Is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly as it is the only economics work in existence that is based on fact vs. speculation, opinion or ivory tower thinking. It will provide a stable benchmark to calibrate your own personal bull shit detector which should serve you well.

We have been in uncharted waters financially for well over a decade. 2008 was a wavelet. The tsunami is on the way. Oh! But this time is different?

Bobbitu, it looks very interesting and ks over 500 pages. It is on audio. Sounds like more than I want to chew at the current time, but I love the ideas presented in the Amazon review.

I put it in my Audible cue and will try to digest it --based on your recommendation.

I don't think human beings are any different than they have ever been. I think the situation is different based on "global" awareness of the average citizen. We are in unchartered territory.

15 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:40:17pm

per freetoken's suggestion, I've watched the Century of Self and continued the thread on a new Pages Post.

I'll be working on listening to Bobbitu's suggestion next.

I'm still working on the others. Thanks everyone!


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