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1 Kronocide  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:19:21am

Thanks Charles, blockquote does look better than italics.

2 freetoken  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:50:12am

Well done.

3 freetoken  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:06:27am

I'll add that I'm not sure that the Muller and Curry led effort is even revelatory, as indeed NCDC has shown before, though with less rigor, that simply picking remote stations led to surface temperature changes that were not significantly different than using all locations.

And,

However, the gist of this study is that the UHI Effect only adds .06C to the global increase in temperature.

just to be pedantic, the Berkeley led group is looking narrowly at surface land temps from the record. Climate change involves more than just temperature changes (for example, the depth of the troposphere), and even temperature changes are more widely affected than just land surfaces. E.g., the ocean surface, and especially below surface water temperatures, the rise of the tropospheric temps all the way up to the stratosphere, the drop in stratospheric temps at the boundary with the troposphere, and so on.

Watt's fixation with the surface temps, and particularly his claim to fame of posting pics of some weather stations in urban areas which are now awkwardly located, is what is being exposed as folly, which is why he's suffering major butthurt.

4 Kronocide  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:23:18am

re: #3 freetoken

Yes, good to note the specificity of the study.

I read the BEST study as directly addressing Watt's propositions with the land temp stations.

I know Watts stated that he would accept the findings of BEST whatever they may be. I'll search for it later.

Also, Watts complaint that this study was released before peer review is bunk. Interest in Muller and BEST is already heightened due to PR and media interest so it's not unreasonable to release this study before peer review with an acknowledgement that it is not peer reviewed yet.

5 KingKenrod  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 12:55:25pm

re: #3 freetoken

just to be pedantic, the Berkeley led group is looking narrowly at surface land temps from the record. Climate change involves more than just temperature changes (for example, the depth of the troposphere), and even temperature changes are more widely affected than just land surfaces. E.g., the ocean surface, and especially below surface water temperatures, the rise of the tropospheric temps all the way up to the stratosphere, the drop in stratospheric temps at the boundary with the troposphere, and so on.

The Berkeley group is planning to look at oceans next - that is, unless their funding dries up. I don't know their plans for atmospheric review.

6 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 2:02:42pm

Of course, the already peer reviewed literature on the subject already found what BEST is claiming some years ago.

Propagandists like Watts have nothing in the way of peer reviewed literature. To have such a depraved anti-science loon suddenly care about peer review is something worse than ironic. He only survives in the absence of peer review. Everything he has ever claimed has been soundly debunked multiple times in the literature by actual scientific professionals. Unfortunately, not enough people care to look at actual peer -reviewed literature in any case.
If they, did there would not be this silly debate.

7 freetoken  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:18:02pm

re: #5 KingKenrod

The Berkeley group is planning to look at oceans next - that is, unless their funding dries up. I don't know their plans for atmospheric review.

The problem with ocean temps is that they are even more sparsely sampled (in time as well as space) than land surface, and especially given that most of the historic record is only from the ocean surface (done by passing ships, e.g., dropping buckets) which is but a tiny bit of the volume of the seas.


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