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1 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 10:41:41am

US Troops will no longer have immunity from civil or criminal prosecution?

Is this correct?

2 Kronocide  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 10:42:19am

This is the person we want driving foreign policy? What a moron.

3 freetoken  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 10:46:19am
“Iraqi leaders have adamantly refused to give U.S. troops immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts, and the Americans have refused to stay without it.”

This is an issue the US has faced before in other countries, and it is a delicate one around which the US maneuvers. Often the host country relents, but the US does make agreements with nations on how to handle US personnel in a nation's legal system, usually with some sort military legal procedure where the US formally hands over a service member to the host country legal system. In the case of Iraq I suspect that the US is afraid that service personnel will be held personally liable for the "collateral damage" of various actions.

4 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 10:49:20am

re: #3 freetoken

This is an issue the US has faced before in other countries, and it is a delicate one around which the US maneuvers. Often the host country relents, but the US does make agreements with nations on how to handle US personnel in a nation's legal system, usually with some sort military legal procedure where the US formally hands over a service member to the host country legal system. In the case of Iraq I suspect that the US is afraid that service personnel will be held personally liable for the "collateral damage" of various actions.

Or actually be punished for crimes they did commit -- not every soldier is a saint.

5 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 10:53:32am

One cannot command an army the same way one commands a state. From Sun Tzu's Art of War: There are three ways in which a sovereign can bring misfortune upon his army: By commanding the army to advance or to retreat, being ignorant of the fact that it cannot obey. This is called hobbling the army. By attempting to govern an army in the same way he administers a kingdom, being ignorant of the conditions that obtain in an army. This causes restlessness in the soldiers' minds. Humanity and justice are the principles on which to govern a state, but not an army; opportunism and flexibility. on the other hand, are military rather than civic virtues.

6 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:00:13am

I'm getting a different feel from this. Tell me if I am wrong.

If Iraq is saying that they will prosecute soldiers for crimes, does that mean that the Military is not doing so --soldiers are getting away with behaving like idiots or worse?

Or is it just a way for Iraq to kick us out while "saving face"?

7 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:09:36am

re: #6 ggt
It could be "saving face." But keep in mind this is Bachmann saying this and I think she has never read Sun Tzu or Henry Clay and has no idea of what is going on in the world.

8 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:15:03am

re: #7 PhillyPretzel

It could be "saving face." But keep in mind this is Bachmann saying this and I think she has never read Sun Tzu or Henry Clay and has no idea of what is going on in the world.

Oh, I didn't pollute my mind with her words. I'm just trying to figure it out for myself.

I have no problem with Obama bringing them home for that reason.

9 Lidane  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:42:05am

re: #5 PhillyPretzel

Sun Tzu? Sounds like some godless Chinese commie to me. Why do you hate America?

/Bachmann

10 FreedomMoon  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 12:10:55pm

re: #6 ggt

I'm getting a different feel from this. Tell me if I am wrong.

If Iraq is saying that they will prosecute soldiers for crimes, does that mean that the Military is not doing so --soldiers are getting away with behaving like idiots or worse?

Or is it just a way for Iraq to kick us out while "saving face"?

While it's a fact that crimes are committed by our servicemen and women, it is also a fact that there is always an effort on behalf of the leadership to pursue and prosecute those responsible. It would be naive to think that all of the culpable are prosecuted, but I'm optimistic in believing that many if not most, are.

It would seem logical to give free reign to the Iraqi justice system, but the fact of the matter is that it would quickly devolve into an very arbitrary system that unfortunately characterizes third world countries--one influenced by politics, both internal and external, Napoleon syndrome, etc. Extreme punitive sentences would most likely be liberally applied that run counter to our own belief systems as a society.

In the end, having to be spend time in an Iraqi jail probably constitutes as cruel and unusual punishment, against which we as US citizens are protected against.

11 dragonfire1981  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 12:14:55pm

The fact is, the time has come to bring these troops home.

We've been there EIGHT years, we've gotten Saddam, we even got Bin Laden (though not directly part of the Iraq war, it is related).

The job there is done.

It's time to let the Iraqi troops and police handle things from here.

It's time to take the training wheels off. We just can't stay there forever.

12 Curt  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:30:51pm

re: #11 dragonfire1981

The fact is, the time has come to bring these troops home.

We've been there EIGHT years, we've gotten Saddam, we even got Bin Laden (though not directly part of the Iraq war, it is related).

The job there is done.

It's time to let the Iraqi troops and police handle things from here.

It's time to take the training wheels off. We just can't stay there forever.

You have a point, and the other point is we have long used forward basing to manage our interests. IN this region, we have no established foothold, except the main one in Iraq, with the bases and logistics pipelines to allow employment, if necessary.

We have been in Korean and Europe since the end of WWII...for that reas

13 Tigger2  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 12:27:34am

Well hell they didn't ask us to be there in the first place.


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