Pages

Jump to bottom

146 comments

1 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:00:42pm

You ask why, and I don't have a perfect answer for you. In terms of American Jews, here are some explanations/factors that I've seen, in no particular order. I can, and have, shot holes in all of these, so let me make it clear that I'm trying to get inside the mindset, not defend it rationally:

1. Israel has few friends, and could be easily abandoned by all, but the religious right has to stand with us because their religion says to.
2. Islam is powerful, and Muslims want to kill us. The religious Christians are our friends.
3. Christian anti-Semitism is over.
4. Even if Christians are still anti-Semites, Muslims are killing Jews now, and Christians aren't, so we side with them.
5. It doesn't matter what they believe. Armageddon isn't really coming, so their belief is harmless. So they have a legend that Jesus will come back. You think Jesus is coming back?
6. They don't really believe this. You've been suckered. It's all lies. Like the blood libel. They might believe something like this, but they believe that God will make it happen, not human beings. It's just like believing that Moshiach is coming.
7. Increasingly: These people understand the threat of radical Islam (or just Islam) and will vote for Republicans who will stop Obama from destroying Israel.
8. Religious lunatics from this background are very nice people, when addressing Jewish groups. This should not be underestimated.

As to what the Israelis are thinking, it's a little more complicated. Among Anglim, it's similar to what I've described above. In general, non-Anglo Israelis (most of them), don't much care about this, or understand the nuances of it particularly well. The diplomatic corps is gracious to church groups because they want to keep up popular support. All of this is currently a little skewed by the fact that the right-wing Anglim are paranoid about Obama.

2 Bill Nye: People Magazine 'Sexiest Man Alive'  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 11:41:26pm

I think SFZ explained it very well. I am not Jewish and i am also in no way defending the Jewish-Christian fundamentalist partnership. However, i can understand why some Jewish people would.

3 dragonfire1981  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 6:12:43am

I am Christian but have deep respect for the nation of Israel and the Jewish people. The bible says Jews are God's chosen people. I don't think there is anything to be gained faith wise by wishing ill will on the Jews.

A lot of the Prophecies in the Bible, including the rebuilding of the Temple prophecy, are open to interpretation. Consider the ongoing debate over whether or not Revelation refers to historical events or things to come.

There are many Christians who believe the events of Revelation will one day happen exactly as described.

4 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 9:15:25am

After a night's sleep, I should also add that there are a lot of non-crazy devout Christians who take an interest in/support Israel for religious or other reasons...and it's not always easy to tell the difference between them and absolute batshit crazy people, especially coming from outside the culture.

Something else to bear in mind.

5 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 9:22:38am

re: #4 SanFranciscoZionist

And there's not a lot of effort made by the Christians who support Israel to draw the distinction, either. The blanket statements of Christian support for Israel tend to alide the two.

I think, honestly, there's a bit of an annoying bit on Israel's part where it accepts support of anti-semites abroad if they support Israel. It's kind of the inverse of the "Anti-Israel is often anti-semitic." Pro-Israel is no proof against anti-semitism, and Israel does often, to me, seem to not have a ton of connection with Jews outside of Israel. I don't know if that's fair of me or not.

6 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 10:28:02am

re: #5 Obdicut

And there's not a lot of effort made by the Christians who support Israel to draw the distinction, either. The blanket statements of Christian support for Israel tend to alide the two.

I think, honestly, there's a bit of an annoying bit on Israel's part where it accepts support of anti-semites abroad if they support Israel. It's kind of the inverse of the "Anti-Israel is often anti-semitic." Pro-Israel is no proof against anti-semitism, and Israel does often, to me, seem to not have a ton of connection with Jews outside of Israel. I don't know if that's fair of me or not.

The relationship between Israel and non-Israeli Jews is a--complicated--one. I think it's hard for many Israelis to really grok Jewish life outside Israel.

7 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 10:58:00am

I have wondered more than once if the "Dome of the Rock" being erected on the same site as the old temple wasn't actually God trying to protect us from ourselves. With a Mosque there the "Evangelical Christian" prophecies simply cannot be fulfilled, Soloman's temple cannot be rebuilt, so no start to the doomsday Armageddon clock.

I can't help but see that as a good thing from my heretical non-orthodox Christian viewpoint.

8 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 12:14:58pm

There are people who are muslim and believe that the whole world will, in time, be converted to Islam through war.

I have seen video of Imans, and leaders of that faith express that belief.

HOWEVER if I made the generalisation that "These people" were actively advocating this belief meaning all muslim people, then I would be wrong.

These people do not support Israel, they want to see Israel destroyed, because that is all part of Gods plan…sigh.

That is most certainly ausador's opinion. However it is not fact.

In this Jew's opinion, to say that Evangelical Christians only aim is to see all Jews betrayed by the Anti-Christ and then die horribly, is nothing short of hate speech.

9 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 12:25:40pm

re: #8 Buck

Can you name a variety of evangelical Christianity that does not believe in an apocalyptic eschatology involving the rebuilding of the temple, Buck?

10 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 9:25:49pm

re: #9 Obdicut

Can you name a variety of evangelical Christianity that does not believe in an apocalyptic eschatology involving the rebuilding of the temple, Buck?

Why didn't you ask me to find a variety of evangelical Christianity who's members aim is NOT to see all Jews betrayed by the Anti-Christ and then die horribly?

That is the subject here. Not the rebuilding of the temple. Jews believe that. They just don't think there has to be an apocalypse. Unless you think that the dead rising from their graves as a little apocalyptic.

Are you saying that there are NO evangelical Christians who don't have the aim to see all Jews betrayed by the Anti-Christ and then die horribly?

Is that your position? Really? Please be clear. Say it .... All evangelical Christians secretly hope of blissfully watching Jews die in agony. Come on Obdicut.... you updinged those statements.


Evangelical Christians secretly hope of blissfully watching Jews die in agony.

and

Evangelical Christians do not support Israel, they want to see Israel destroyed, because that is all part of Gods plan.

and

Evangelical Christians only aim is to see all Jews betrayed by the Anti-Christ and then die horribly.


You updinged that crap. Now own up to it. Say it....

11 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 10:25:26pm

Pat Robertson does not teach that the only aim for his church is to see all Jews betrayed by the Anti-Christ and then die horribly.

I understand that you all know the double secret reasons that he can't share with anyone publicly, but somehow you found out.

However he makes a good speech, fooling the stupid Jews....

Here is good one.

Ladies and Gentleman, evangelical Christians support Israel because we believe that the words of Moses and the ancient prophets of Israel were inspired by God. We believe that the emergence of a Jewish state in the land promised by God to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was ordained by God.

We believe that God has a plan for this nation which He intends to be a blessing to all the nations of the earth.

Of course, we, like all right-thinking people, support Israel because Israel is an island of democracy, an island of individual freedom, an island of the rule of law, and an island of modernity in the midst of a sea of dictatorial regimes, the suppression of individual liberty, and a fanatical religion intent on returning to the feudalism of 8th Century Arabia.

We are with you in your struggle. We are with you as a wave of anti-Semitism is engulfing the earth. We are with you despite the pressure of the "Quartette" and the incredibly hostile resolutions of the United Nations. We are with you despite the threats and ravings of Wahabbi Jihadists, Hezbollah thugs, and Hamas assassins.

We are with you despite oil embargos, loss of allies, and terrorist attacks on our cities.

We evangelical Christians merely say to our Israeli friends, "Let us serve our God together by opposing the virulent poison of anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism that is rapidly engulfing the world."

Good stuff.... fools me....

12 Bob Levin  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 4:04:36am

As of today, there is little difference between the evangelicals and the actual Republican Party. In the case of Israeli diplomacy, Israel must stay on good terms with both parties, since both parties can conceivably win.

In terms of personal relationships, frequently people are able to put their differences aside and focus on other things that tie us together. And that means there isn't a constant harping about the schedule of events on Judgment Day. Pretty much because most sane people will admit to not really knowing, even whether there will be a judgment day.

Back to politics, given the present situation of American politics, that there isn't as much moderation, Israel is between a rock and a hard place. But this is the space in which Jews have historically lived.

13 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 4:18:57am
hmm that sounds familiar from somewhere Reign=Reich?…naw getting too close to a Godwin?

Actually, that's not that far off. The "Third Reich" meme has chiliastic and gnostic roots (think Old Testament, New Testament, Kingdom Come -- as ages). The Nazis (and before them the völkisch movement) were very enthusiastic about incorporating such idealistic concepts for their philosophy of history (one could speculate about that being an intentional counterpoint to the more materialistic conceptualizations of history by their Marxist rivals). It is interesting, too, that the Nazis officially discouraged the use of that term in 1939. The reasons, to a make it short, was that it had come to function more as a term of ridicule than of effective propaganda.

14 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 4:25:14am

re: #11 Buck

I understand that you all know the double secret reasons that he can't share with anyone publicly, but somehow you found out.

Uh, Buck, you might want to use someone else than Pat Robertson as an example of someone who is completely open and honest about his political goals and motives:

15 CuriousLurker  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 4:38:45am

re: #14 000G

Uh, Buck, you might want to use someone else than Pat Robertson as an example of someone who is completely open and honest about his political goals and motives: [Link: www.thedailyshow.com...]

ZOMG, Pat Robertson stole our taqiyyah!!11!

16 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 8:22:23am

re: #14 000G

Uh, Buck, you might want to use someone else than Pat Robertson as an example of someone who is completely open and honest about his political goals and motives: [Link: www.thedailyshow.com...]

I can't see Comedy Network Daily Show videos online from Canada. So maybe you can take few extra seconds and make your argument in writing.

However if it is just to point out something that Pat Robertson said that I wont agree with, don't bother. I am not saying that everything Pat Robertson says is perfect. I am sure it isn't. However, he supports Israel, and it is only a worst sort of bigot who would, without actual evidence, put those terrible anti semitic words in his mouth.

That is the subject of my posts. How can a person say these horrible things about a religion, here, and get updings, and encouragement?

ausador says they are a former Evangelical Christian. Maybe like former smokers they are the worse critics of their former community. However that doesn't excuse the updings from people like you, Obdicut and especially CuriousLurker. Each of you would shout the loudest if someone were to post these lies about Islam.

The future LGF will look on this post the way you look on the posts of LGF from those who are banned now.

17 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 8:27:40am

Go through the Post, and every where it talks about Evangelical Christians, substitute Pat Robertson, or 700 Club members.

Can you really support a person who would say:

Pat Robertson secretly hopes of blissfully watching Jews die in agony?

Don't you see what that is saying?

18 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 8:40:39am

I won't really try, but I can imagine the article being written on Stormfront, only it would be titled "I'm Curious why any Christian (or America!) Would Cozy up to Jews".

19 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 8:42:05am

re: #16 Buck

I can't see Comedy Network Daily Show videos online from Canada. So maybe you can take few extra seconds and make your argument in writing.

[Link: www.mediaite.com...]

Basically Robertson was annoyed by the Tea Party crazies being too openly crazy during primary and pre-primary season because the public catching on to their radical agenda would fuck up their general election chances.

20 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 8:43:09am

re: #17 Buck

Pat Robertson secretly hopes of blissfully watching Jews die in agony?

Don't you see what that is saying?

It is saying the truth, Buck.

21 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 9:13:03am

Aren't Southern Baptists also Evangelical? It seems that many consider that they are...

They seem to also have a "apocalyptic eschatology involving the rebuilding of the temple".

Doesn't that mean, if we are going to generalize that way around here... that Bill and Hillary secretly hope of blissfully watching Jews die in agony?

Get it?

22 CuriousLurker  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 12:01:17pm

I don't know if Pat Robertson has ever publicly said anything that was blatantly anti-Semitic or anti-Jewish, but some of the sources he used in at least one of his books certainly did.

The New York Review of Books on Robertson's 1991 book, The New World Order:

His Anti-Semitic Sources

On March 4 and March 5, 1995, Reverend Marion Gordon “Pat” Robertson sent separate letters to The New York Times defending his 1991 book, The New World Order, against charges of anti-Semitism. In both statements, Robertson placed particular emphasis on his book’s scholarship. In his March 4 statement, Robertson wrote: “The book ‘The New World Order,’ was carefully researched and contains seven single-spaced pages of bibliography from original historical sources.” On March 5, Robertson said:

There is nothing new about the observation that there is a connection between the world of high finance and the United States foreign policy establishment. In my book, I rely heavily on the pioneering work of Carroll Quigley, Bill Clinton’s professor and mentor at Georgetown. Mr. Quigley argued in “Tragedy and Hope” (1966) that “energetic left-wingers” exercised influence over United States foreign policy that was “ultimately the power of the international financial coterie.”

Robertson and his defenders are using Quigley as a smoke screen to divert attention from the much nastier works he also relies on. Two of them—World Revolution: The Plot Against Civilization and Secret Societies and Subversive Movements—are by Nesta H. Webster, an English historian of the 1920s who wrote several books on the French Revolution. The third, Secrets of the Federal Reserve: The London Connection, is by the American conservative writer Eustace Mullins. [...]

Webster’s World Revolution and Secret Societies both portray Jews as sinister, conspiratorial forces. Secret Societies includes chapter titles such as “The Jewish Cabalists” and “The Real Jewish Peril.” The appendix consists of “Jewish Evidence on the Talmud” and “The ‘Protocols’ of the Elders of Zion.” [...]

There's more on the dust-up between Mr. Robertson, The New York Review of Books, and The New York Times. Oh, and he managed to piss off the Freemasons as well.

Since the above probably won't be enough evidence for some people, next up we'll take a look at Nesta H. Webster.

Continued below...

23 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 12:11:55pm

re: #22 CuriousLurker

A Christian Fundementalist relying on antisemitic sources for his conspiracy theories? I am SHOCKED! SHOCKED!

Buck will probably a good explanation for this, too. Maybe he mistook Nesta Helen Webster and Eustace Mullins to be respectable investigators of world jewry?

24 CuriousLurker  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 12:14:15pm

Continued from above...

Now let's take a look at Nesta H. Webster, conspiracy theorist extraordinaire, via her own words. From her World revolution: the plot against civilization, Chapter IV - The Industrial Revolution - Role of the Jews (page 92):

The Jew was of course not alone in exploiting the workers; but the spirit of the Jew, permeating commerce in every country — in France, in Germany, above all in America — undoubtedly contributed to the industrial oppression against which Marx inveighs. Under the monarchy the Jews had been held in check by laws limiting their activities, but the edicts passed at the beginning of the Revolution, decreeing their complete emancipation, had removed all restraints to their rapacity.

From her Secret Societies and Subversive Movements, Chapter VIII - The Jewish Cabalists (pages 177-178):

It has been shown in the preceding chapters that the Jewish Cabala played an important part in the occult and anti-Christian sects from the very beginning of the Christian era. The time has now come to enquire what part Jewish influence played meanwhile in revolutions. [...]

In the light of our present knowledge it would certainly be absurd to ascribe to the Jews the authorship of the conspiracy of Catiline or of the Gracchi, the rising of Jack Straw and Wat Tyler, Jack Cade's rebellion, the jacqueries of France, or the Peasants' Wars in Germany, [...]

Nevertheless, in modern revolutions the part played by the Jews cannot be ignored, and the influence they have exercised will be seen on examination to have been twofold—financial and occult. Throughout the Middle Ages it is as sorcerers and usurers that they incur the reproaches of the Christian world, and it is still in the same role, under the more modern terms of magicians and loan-mongers, that we detect their presence behind the scenes of revolution from the seventeenth century onward. Wherever money was to be made out of social or political upheavals, wealthy Jews have been found to back the winning side; and wherever the Christian races have turned against their own institutions, Jewish Rabbis, philosophers, professors, and occultists have lent them their support. It was not then necessarily that Jews created these movements, but they knew how to make use of them for their own ends.

These are the sorts of sources Pat Robertson used for his book. That they are rife with anti-Semitism is undeniable—the information is right there in black & white, accessible to anyone who cares enough about the truth to spend 30 minutes seeking it instead of wasting time trying to score some cheap, idiotic talking points.

I have to wonder: If I created a Page here using the same sources Mr. Robertson did, and regurgitating the same classically anti-Semitic conspiracy theories without ever actually saying anything overtly anti-Semitic, do you suppose anyone would rush to my defense? Somehow I doubt it. I even have a pretty good idea of who would be standing at the front of the line pointing at me and screaming, "Anti-Semite!"

25 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 4:18:55pm

re: #24 CuriousLurker

Curious... you just used Nesta H. Webster as a source....

Did he use them, and their anti semitism to make an anti semitic point?

Did he actually regurgitate "the same classically anti-Semitic conspiracy theories without ever actually saying anything overtly anti-Semitic"?

Did he regurgitate "the same classically anti-Semitic conspiracy theories" at all?

Is that what he did?

26 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 4:23:26pm

re: #22 CuriousLurker

I don't know if Pat Robertson has ever publicly said anything that was blatantly anti-Semitic or anti-Jewish, but some of the sources he used in at least one of his books certainly did.

If he did write anything, or ever publicly said anything that was blatantly anti-Semitic or anti-Jewish, you would have a point. Still not on subject, but it would be interesting.

Are there anti semites in this world? Yes. Is it ok to generalize about religions the way this post does? I say not, you clearly say yes.

I fear the next time someone does it about your religion, you will have less to defend yourself with.

27 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 4:36:06pm

re: #10 Buck

Not all evangelical Christians have anything like that desire, certainly. Likewise, not all Catholics actually believe abortion should be illegal. However, the position of those churches on the subject are, unforatuately, firm.

In addition, Ausodor made it clear he was talking about fringe Evangelicals, in terms of the people who are actually emotionally invested in this.

Still, though they may not engage with it, the actual teachings of the churches on the subject of the apocalypse all do involve the Jews being betrayed by the anti-christ and then dying terribly-- along with a hell of lot of the earth. Most Jews will be consigned to hell or oblivion. While I think for many good-hearted evangelicals, if they even bring themselves to think about this facet of religion, this is a matter of sadness rather than joy, it is still a part of their religion.

Similarly, if someone believes homosexuality is a sin that will send unrepentant homosexuals to hell, they may be full of sorrow and grief at that, but it it is still a bigoted position and a gay person would be a fool to 'cozy up' to anyone holding that view.

Do you understand?

28 CuriousLurker  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 4:38:32pm

re: #25 Buck

re: #26 Buck

You're going to have to do better than that if you want me to take the bait. But, hey, go ahead and knock yourself out—who knows, maybe I'll bite one of these days. :)

29 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 4:39:33pm

Remember when Robertson said Ariel Sharon's stroke was a punishment from God for withdrawing from Gaza and that Rabin deserved to die. Good times.

"God has enmity against those who, quote 'divide my land,'" Robertson told his television audience. "And I would say, Woe unto any prime minister of Israel who takes a similar course to appease the E.U., the United Nations or the United States of America. God says, This land belongs to me. You better leave it alone." Robertson added that the 1995 assassination of former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was, "the same thing."

Yep, you read that that's right. Pat thinks Rabin's killing was divinely sanctioned.

30 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 4:47:34pm

Just to make sure, a quote from NWO, p.104:

British author Nesta Webster researched and wrote extensively on subversive movements. She described a group in Switzerland claiming direct descent from the founder of the Illuminati, Adam Weishaupt. She says, 'The same secret ring of Illuminati is believed to have been intimately connected with the organization of the Bolshevist revolution ... None of the leading Bolsheviks are said to have been members of the innermost circle, which is understood to consist of men belonging to the highest intellectual and financial classes, whose names remain absolutely unknown. Outside this absolutely secret ring there existed, however, a semi-secret circle of high initiates of subversive societies drawn from all over the world and belonging to various nationalities

So:

1. He takes the obviously antisemitic author seriously, while knowing this author is antisemitic.

2. He legitimizes the antisemitic author's scholarship by explicitly relying on the core portions of it.

3. He omits mentioning that according to the same author "Illuminati" is a specifically Jewish conspiracy.

In light of this it is absolutely irrelevant if he explicitly endorsed any openly antisemitic idea with Webster's help.

It's like arguing about whether or not an author endorsed a specific antisemitic point in quoting from the Protocols as if from a real source.

31 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 4:56:32pm

re: #27 Obdicut

Ausodor made it clear he was talking about fringe Evangelicals

So the sentence: "what it is that would make any Jew cozy up to Evangelical Christians whose only aim is to see them all betrayed by the Anti-Christ and then die horribly" is clearly talking about the fringe?

If "fringe" is supposed to be assumed (and I think you are make a stretch Mr. Fantastic would be proud of) the the whole post is a straw man. There is no significant number of Jews cozying up to FRINGE evangelical Christians.

Certainly the idea that someday Jewish lives may some day depend on knowing this about FRINGE evangelical Christians makes no sense what so ever.

Similarly, if someone believes homosexuality is a sin that will send unrepentant homosexuals to hell, they may be full of sorrow and grief at that, but it it is still a bigoted position and a gay person would be a fool to 'cozy up' to anyone holding that view.

To make that example relevant you would have to say if someone who is part of a religion believes homosexuality is a sin that will send unrepentant homosexuals to hell, a gay person would be a fool to 'cozy up' to anyone who is part of that same religion holding that view.

Do you understand that you can't judge everyone who is part of one religion by their religion? You say "Not all evangelical Christians have anything like that desire", but do you believe it? Would you tell Ausodor that? Would you be offended by by people who have the opposite view?

32 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 5:00:27pm

I explained clearly in my #16 it means nothing just to point out something that Pat Robertson said that I wont agree with. I am not saying that everything Pat Robertson says is perfect. I am sure it isn't.

However I don't believe he is an anti semite who takes pleasure from watching Jews die.

33 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 5:01:19pm

re: #31 Buck

So the sentence: "what it is that would make any Jew cozy up to Evangelical Christians whose only aim is to see them all betrayed by the Anti-Christ and then die horribly" is clearly talking about the fringe?

Well, yes, it's talking about those Evangelical Christians who feel that way.

How do you explain why he talks about the fringe?

To make that example relevant you would have to say if someone who is part of a religion believes homosexuality is a sin that will send unrepentant homosexuals to hell, a gay person would be a fool to 'cozy up' to anyone who is part of that same religion holding that view.

That is what I'm saying. Gay people would be fools to think that conservative Catholics, for example, have their political interests at heart. Gay Catholics may want to change the church, but that won't be done so by cozying up to them, but by confrontation.

Do you understand that you can't judge everyone who is part of one religion by their religion?

I'm not judging anyone.

You say "Not all evangelical Christians have anything like that desire", but do you believe it?

Um. Yes. That's why I wrote it.

Would you tell Ausodor that?

He can read, and, as I said, I think he's of the same view. There's probably a signfiicant percentage of evangelical Christians who grew up in that tradition who don't even really know this, or think of the end of the world as being comfortably far off.

Would you be offended by by people who have the opposite view?

No clue what you mean by that.

34 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 5:16:47pm

re: #33 Obdicut

Well, yes, it's talking about those Evangelical Christians who feel that way.

No it does NOT refer to just those who feel that way.
He says: "I'm Curious to why any Jew (or the Israeli state!) Would Cozy up to Evangelical Christians."

If you really think that the title and that first sentence refers to a minority or a fringe, or even some...you need to dial back you meds. You are seeing words that are not there.

How do you explain why he talks about the fringe?

He doesn't. He doesn't talk about the fringe. He uses the word fringe, once... while also using the words "vast majority". For the rest of the entire post he uses hate filled generalizations about a religious group.

Just like you do here:

That is what I'm saying. Gay people would be fools to think that conservative Catholics, for example, have their political interests at heart. Gay Catholics may want to change the church, but that won't be done so by cozying up to them, but by confrontation.

See how that works? You say "Not all evangelical Christians have anything like that desire", but then you generalize about ALL conservative Catholics.

Guess what? Not all conservative Catholics have that opinion about gays.

I'm not judging anyone.

Yes, you are. The above example is plain and obvious.

35 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 5:22:40pm

re: #34 Buck

No it does NOT refer to just those who feel that way.
He says: "I'm Curious to why any Jew (or the Israeli state!) Would Cozy up to Evangelical Christians."

In the headline. In the actual full sentence, the period is not there. You prefer to ignore that, because it suits you.

If you really think that the title and that first sentence refers to a minority or a fringe, or even some...you need to dial back you meds.

Charming. You've gotten more and more personal lately, Buck. Why?

He doesn't. He doesn't talk about the fringe. He uses the word fringe, once... while also using the words "vast majority".

He refers to the vast majority of the fringe.

You can't simultaneously claim he doesn't talk about the fringe, and then immediately acknowledge he does, you know.

See how that works? You say "Not all evangelical Christians have anything like that desire", but then you generalize about ALL conservative Catholics.

Er, no, I don't. There may be conservative Catholics who don't think gay people are sinning by having gay sex, but they're clearly in the small minority, given that the actual position of the whole Catholic church, let alone the conservative part of it, is that gay behavior is sinful and reprehensible.

Likewise, there may be Evengelical Christians who don't think that Jews will have to convert in order to be saved from damnation, but they're nowhere near the majority. It is the theological position of the churches, that they have to be.

36 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 5:49:23pm

re: #32 Buck

However I don't believe he is an anti semite who takes pleasure from watching Jews die.

Except of course for Rabin, who he apparently believes had it coming.

Face it Buck, Robertson's made it clear that the only good Jews are those who advance his interpretation of scripture. When Sharon and Rabin got in the way he cheered their destruction.

37 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 6:08:53pm

re: #35 Obdicut

that Jews will have to convert in order to be saved from damnation

That is not the subject. It is not the same thing as "aim is to see all Jews betrayed by the Anti-Christ and then die horribly".

Yes, he used the word fringe, but like I point out, it is deep in the post and he is clearly NOT meaning it anywhere else in the post. Including the title.

I am still intensely curious about what it is that would make any Jew cozy up to Evangelical Christians whose only aim is to see them all betrayed by the Anti-Christ and then die horribly

Maybe he means those few Evangelical Christians? Or those fringe Evangelical Christians, but he doesn't say that does he. Just like you didn't say some conservative Christians, or even most.

He doesn't talk ABOUT then fringe, sure he uses the word. But he doesn't really describe "the fringe" in any way. He generalizes about Evangelical Christians...

So what does "vast majority of the fringe" really mean? A huge part of the really small part? So it is not even the whole fringe, it is just a large part of what is really a small fraction. You really think this tiny portion of a much larger group is what he is warning Jews not to cozy up to?

In your #9 you even infer that I would find it difficult to find a "variety of evangelical Christianity that does not believe" what is being said about them. Did you think it would be difficult to find the much larger group that isn't saying the same thing as this tiny portion of the evangelical community?

No. You were not fooled. You didn't misunderstand. You agreed, and you updinged. Then, just to prove it, you said something similar about conservative catholics.

In SFZ's #4 "lot of non-crazy devout Christians who take an interest in/support Israel for religious or other reasons." I think She is trying to say that not all of evangelical Christianity feels the way the post describes.

I am done. I have made my point.

I am offended in multiple ways by this post. As a Jew, and as a long standing member of this site. I find it bigoted. I no longer feel I should have to defend that. You clearly think otherwise. That's ok for you.

38 CuriousLurker  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 6:10:59pm

re: #36 goddamnedfrank

Image: lalalalalalala_can__t_hear_you.jpg

And with that, I give up. Gonna forget about this page & get ready to face Monday. ;o)

39 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 6:15:33pm

re: #36 goddamnedfrank

Except of course for Rabin, who he apparently believes had it coming.

Face it Buck, Robertson's made it clear that the only good Jews are those who advance his interpretation of scripture. When Sharon and Rabin got in the way he cheered their destruction.

He doesn't take pleasure in it. He is a religious person who often thinks he can find explanations for bad things in "gods will". I disagree with him, but I don't need to challenge his religious view.

40 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 6:49:32pm

re: #37 Buck

At this point, you've lost me. You appear to be saying that most evangelical Christians don't actually believe in their own religion, and that you're psychic and you know what I think. And that you know I'm on medication of some sort.

The latter is a complete lie, by the way.

I am offended in multiple ways by this post. As a Jew, and as a long standing member of this site. I find it bigoted. I no longer feel I should have to defend that. You clearly think otherwise. That's ok for you.

Do you feel that the belief of Evangelical Christians that Jews need to convert in order to receive salvation is bigoted?

41 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 6:50:54pm

re: #30 Sergey Romanov

It's like arguing about whether or not an author endorsed a specific antisemitic point in quoting from the Protocols as if from a real source.

You can see it that way, I don't.

If you want to talk about secret "subversive movements", you are going to have to quote some crazy ass people. These nut cases are going to have a bottomless pit of bad stuffed inside them.

42 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:00:49pm

re: #40 Obdicut

At this point, you've lost me. You appear to be saying that most evangelical Christians don't actually believe in their own religion, and that you're psychic and you know what I think. And that you know I'm on medication of some sort.

The meds comment is an expression. You are being way too sensitive.

And no, I am saying that ausador is generalizing about evangelical Christians. And he is saying things about them that are not only not true, but are also offensive.

I list those offensive statements and what I am saying in my #8 and #10.

Do you feel that the belief of Evangelical Christians that Jews need to convert in order to receive salvation is bigoted?

No, because Jews don't want salvation. At least not the kind they are thinking about. AND if that is all ausador was saying, it would be no problem. It isn't at all what this post was saying.

I have no problem with explaining to my evangelical Christian friends that I am a evangelical atheist, and I wont try and convert them, if they wont try and convert me.

43 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:06:18pm
generalizing about evangelical Christians. And he is saying things about them that are not only not true, but are also offensive.

Oh and I later add that anyone who updinged that bigoted hate speech should be ashamed.

44 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:07:43pm

re: #41 Buck

You can see it that way, I don't.

If you want to talk about secret "subversive movements", you are going to have to quote some crazy ass people. These nut cases are going to have a bottomless pit of bad stuffed inside them.

You must be dense. He was not writing a history of conspirological thinking. He was writing a conspiracy book. So yes, if he took this stuff seriously and he wasn't an "intellectual history" researcher, he was bound to quote and legitimize some of those crazy ass people. One of the people he chose to legitimize was a batshit crazy antisemite, whose theories cannot be untied from antisemitism.

45 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:09:34pm

re: #42 Buck

No, because Jews don't want salvation. At least not the kind they are thinking about. AND if that is all ausador was saying, it would be no problem. It isn't at all what this post was saying.

That wasn't the question, though.

What does what Jews 'want' have to do with the view of Evangelical Christians that Jews will have to give up their religion or be damned?

The meds comment is an expression. You are being way too sensitive.

That's not for you to decide. That's a stupid personal attack, and it's not even like you to do it. You've been lashing out a lot recently in a petty, vindictive, personal manner.

And no, I am saying that ausador is generalizing about evangelical Christians. And he is saying things about them that are not only not true, but are also offensive.

It is perfectly true that Evangelical Christians believe in an apocalyptic end of the world in which Jews die in large numbers, and those that don't convert to Christianity. The defense against that is saying that Evangelical Christians don't actually take their religion that seriously, which is true I'm sure for some. And others probably find it painful to think about.

If Ausodor actually was saying most evangelical Christians feel happy about the deaths of Jews, he'd be wrong. However, they are happy to think of the return of Christ, and one of the effects of the return, in their religion, is the death of Jews. So even if he were saying that, it'd be understandable. But I really don't think he is, and your pathetic attempts to claim you know what I'm thinking are just that.

46 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:10:58pm

re: #39 Buck

He doesn't take pleasure in it. He is a religious person who often thinks he can find explanations for bad things in "gods will". I disagree with him, but I don't need to challenge his religious view.

This is some really weak sauce, even from you. We're talking about a man who said the Haiti earthquake was caused by ancient slaves making a pact with the devil to free themselves from the French. He's saying that God's will was antithetical to black slaves freeing themselves from white rule, so they made a deal with Satan instead.

47 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:13:30pm

re: #46 goddamnedfrank

And:

"When lawlessness is abroad in the land, the same thing will happen here that happened in Nazi Germany," Pat Robertson once warned viewers of his 700 Club. "Many of those people involved with Adolf Hitler were satanists. Many of them were homosexuals. The two seem to go together."

But of course that's not bigoted.

48 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:15:55pm

re: #44 Sergey Romanov

You must be dense.

*snicker*

49 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:16:02pm

re: #46 goddamnedfrank

This is some really weak sauce, even from you. We're talking about a man who said the Haiti earthquake was caused by ancient slaves making a pact with the devil to free themselves from the French. He's saying that God's will was antithetical to black slaves freeing themselves from white rule, so they made a deal with Satan instead.

[Video]

Yes, I said it very clearly that I know his deep felt conviction is that bad things can and must be explained by "gods will". Again I disagree with him, but I don't think it makes him an antisemite. And I would not claim to think that hate guides him. I don't believe that he gets pleasure from the agony or deaths of others.

It is his religious belief. It helps guide him. He might think I should feel the same way. I don't. I don't have to. And I don't think it has anything to do with why he supports Israel.

50 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:17:40pm

re: #48 000G

Yeah, that's the thread where Buck lost me. No more trying to be civil with him.

51 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:18:32pm

re: #47 Obdicut

And:

But of course that's not bigoted.

I didn't say he wasn't bigoted. I wouldn't upding or show support for his bigoted comments. I would his support for Israel.

AGAIN.... do I have to support every word he has ever said, or ever will say in order to accept his support for Israel? NO I DO NOT!

52 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:19:53pm

re: #49 Buck

I don't believe that he gets pleasure from the agony or deaths of others.

I don't think you know a lot about this whole Christian Fundamentalism thing...

Here's some starting points:
[Link: www.newadvent.org...]

53 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:23:05pm

re: #52 000G

I don't think you know a lot about this whole Christian Fundamentalism thing...

Here's some starting points:
[Link: www.newadvent.org...]

This seems to mean I have to start over again.

There are people who are muslim and believe that the whole world will, in time, be converted to Islam through war.

I have seen video of Imans, and leaders of that faith express that belief.

HOWEVER if I made the generalisation that "These people" were actively advocating this belief meaning all muslim people, then I would be wrong.

54 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:24:12pm

re: #49 Buck

Yes, I said it very clearly that I know his deep felt conviction is that bad things can and must be explained by "gods will". Again I disagree with him, but I don't think it makes him an antisemite. And I would not claim to think that hate guides him. I don't believe that he gets pleasure from the agony or deaths of others.

He gets a smug sense of self satisfaction from justifying specific instances of death and misery as directly resulting from the failure to obey his own biblical interpretation of God's will. This is true whether it's blacks who successfully rebelled against slavery or Jews who didn't lead Israel in the manner he deems appropriate.

It is his religious belief. It helps guide him. He might think I should feel the same way. I don't. I don't have to. And I don't think it has anything to do with why he supports Israel.

You don't think Pat's interpretation of God's will has anything to do with why he supports Israel?

55 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:26:01pm

re: #53 Buck

This seems to mean I have to start over again.

Your whole argument consists of nothing but the baseless and ridiculous assertion that fundamentalism should never be criticized in any way because it would always neccessarily amount to bigotry.

56 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:29:06pm

re: #55 000G

Your whole argument consists of nothing but the baseless and ridiculous assertion that fundamentalism should be immune from criticism of any kind because it would neccessarily amount to bigotry.

Not at all. AGAIN no, I am saying that ausador is generalizing about evangelical Christians. And he is saying things about them that are not only not true, but are also offensive.

I list those offensive statements and what I am saying in my #8 and #10.

57 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:31:13pm

re: #54 goddamnedfrank

You don't think Pat's interpretation of God's will has anything to do with why he supports Israel?

I don't think his interpretation of God's will regarding Gays or Hatian's has anything to do with why he supports Israel.

If I were to speak to him, I would tell him I completely disagree with his positions on those and few others.

58 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:32:17pm

re: #56 Buck

Not at all. AGAIN no, I am saying that ausador is generalizing about evangelical Christians. And he is saying things about them that are not only not true, but are also offensive.

I list those offensive statements and what I am saying in my #8 and #10.

Dude, Obdicut already mopped the floor with your fallacious claims about what Asuador allegedly generalized.

59 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:32:41pm

re: #58 000G

Dude, Obdicut already mopped the floor with your fallacious claims about what Asuador allegedly generalized.

sez you.

60 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:33:53pm

re: #59 Buck

sez you.

Well, yes. As would anyone, but you. See #38.

61 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:38:46pm

re: #57 Buck

I don't think his interpretation of God's will regarding Gays or Hatian's has anything to do with why he supports Israel.

How about his interpretation of what makes a good Jew ... do you really think his ideas about how Jews are to be used in the advancement of a specifically Christian agenda aren't anti-semitic?

62 jaunte  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:41:21pm

Evangelical Leaders: Jews Need Jesus Christ

Dozens of prominent evangelical leaders recently endorsed a statement declaring a fact that many Christians already hold to be true – that Jewish people need the Gospel and Jesus Christ to receive eternal life.

63 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:43:42pm

re: #60 000G

Well, yes. As would anyone, but you. See #38.

Yes, I recognize that on this, I am alone here. Doesn't stop me from from expressing what is clearly right.

This page is offensive, bigoted, and clear hate speech. I had hoped more would see this, but clearly I was wrong. You and the others are too invested in it. Your defence of it is shameful, and it says more about you than it does me.

64 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:45:34pm

re: #62 jaunte

Evangelical Leaders: Jews Need Jesus Christ

Right... found from the "bleeding obvious" file.

The only religion I know that doesn't want converts, and in fact discourages conversion is Jewish.

65 jaunte  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:46:26pm

re: #64 Buck

That's not relevant to the discussion.

66 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:47:22pm

re: #61 goddamnedfrank

how Jews are to be used in the advancement of a specifically Christian agenda

Well, maybe you need to show me that. SPECIFICALLY.

67 jaunte  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:49:34pm

re: #66 Buck

...only through Jesus that all people can receive eternal life. If Jesus is not the Messiah of the Jewish people, He cannot be the Savior of the World(Acts 4:12).
[Link: www.christianpost.com...]

68 Interesting Times  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:49:54pm

‘Hitler Was Sent By God’ According To Pastor Involved With Rick Perry Prayer Event

Enter Mike Bickle, head of the unironically named “International House of Prayer”, or IHOP for short. Mr. Bickle was one the pastors deeply involved with Rick Perry’s now infamous prayer event in which Perry prayed for, among other things, the wildfires to be put out even as he slashed the budget for the states’ Forest Service which deals with the majority of these blazes.
...
Mr. Bickles is not a fan of the Jewish community. For years he has been preaching that those of the Jewish faith that do not convert will be condemned to prison camps (aka concentration camps). The crown jewel of this hysteria is his endorsement of Hitler. Yes, you read that correctly.

From one of Bickles’ sermons:

The Lord says, “I’m going to give all 20 million of the the chance to respond to the Fisherman and I give them grace.” And he says, “And if they don’t respond to grace, I’m going to raise up the hunters.” And the most famous hunter in history is a man named Adolf Hitler.

Got that? Hitler was an agent of the Lord and the Holocaust against the Jews was their own fault for not believing in Christ. Before anyone becomes indignant and insists I’m putting words in Bickles’ mouth, you had better come up with a viable alternate interpretation of his words or don’t waste my time.

69 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:58:16pm

re: #68 publicityStunted

There are people who are muslim and believe that the whole world will, in time, be converted to Islam through war.

I have seen video of Imans, and leaders of that faith express that belief.

HOWEVER if I made the generalisation that "These people" were actively advocating this belief meaning all muslim people, then I would be wrong.

If I plastered a bunch of links of Islamic religious leaders saying horrible things about Jews, wouldn't it be wrong to then generalize that ALL muslims felt the same way?

If they can slander all evangelical christians, and paint them with this wide brush, who will be next?

70 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 8:14:39pm

re: #68 publicityStunted

Well, the author of the link you posted here has more to say:

Israel has set up a ghetto where they keep an ethnic group segregated from their population under the guise of “national security.” Said ghetto has deplorable conditions: lacking in essential medicines and other humanitarian supplies as well as food stuffs. Attempting to provide aid to this ghetto is illegal and will result in armed intervention.

Real Stormfront stuff. I didn't even spend 20 seconds searching this guys name and the word Israel before that came up. Does anyone wonder why I don't look to this guy for support on Israel?

[Link: www.addictinginfo.org...]

Just as an aside, according to many here, you just used as a source an known anti semite, and his views on the "religious right", as he likes to call it, cannot be separated from his antisemitism. Which makes you guilty of something... I want you to know I don't subscribe to that.

71 Interesting Times  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 8:33:31pm

IHOP Head Mike Bickle Predicts Coming 'Prison Camps' For Jews

According to Kansas City-based International House of Prayer founder and evangelist Mike Bickle--who played a major role in the August 6th "The Response" prayer event that served as the de facto kickoff event for Rick Perry's presidential bid--in the near future Jews who refuse to convert to Christianity and move to Israel will be pursued by "hunters" sent by God and can expect to be thrown into "prison camps" and "death camps" (see embedded video footage, from Bickle sermons)

IHOP Kansas head Bickle says that "the most famous [heaven-sent] hunter in recent history is a man named Adolf Hitler", and has claimed that Jews collectively are "under the discipline of God because of... perversion and sin."

In Mike Bickle's view, a lucky one third of the world's Jewish population to survive the apocalyptic persecution he predicts will "get radically saved and become lovesick worshipers of Jesus." Bickle has expounded these prophecies, which he claims are clearly described in Biblical scripture, in multiple sermons from 2004 through 2009.

72 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 8:36:34pm

re: #71 publicityStunted

There are people who are muslim and believe that the whole world will, in time, be converted to Islam through war.

I have seen video of Imans, and leaders of that faith express that belief.

HOWEVER if I made the generalisation that "These people" were actively advocating this belief meaning all muslim people, then I would be wrong.

If I plastered a bunch of links of Islamic religious leaders saying horrible things about Jews, wouldn't it be wrong to then generalize that ALL muslims felt the same way?

If they can slander all evangelical christians, and paint them with this wide brush, who will be next?

73 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 8:42:44pm

Gah. I forget, sometimes, Buck, just how big of an idiot you regularly show yourself to be.

All I know is that, as a Christian, the good Jewish man from Roman Palestine that I accept as the Messiah would, if he gave you any notice at all, pat you on the head and tell you to go home to your mommy until you have grown up.

74 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 8:51:44pm

re: #73 wlewisiii

Gah. I forget, sometimes, Buck, just how big of an idiot you regularly show yourself to be.

All I know is that, as a Christian, the good Jewish man from Roman Palestine that I accept as the Messiah would, if he gave you any notice at all, pat you on the head and tell you to go home to your mommy until you have grown up.

You know this do you? Thanks for telling me. I suspect he would have said it better. Something more quotable. Oh well Paul would have sharpened it up.

75 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 8:59:01pm

re: #74 Buck

"Yawn.

Go home child."

That's what He would have said to you. Though even that much would be only because He took care about children like you. Thankfully the Lord does not give any of us what we deserve...

76 Buck  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 9:01:41pm

re: #75 wlewisiii

"Yawn.

Go home child."

That's what He would have said to you. Though even that much would be only because He took care about children like you. Thankfully the Lord does not give any of us what we deserve...

And what do you think I deserve?

77 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 9:10:24pm

re: #76 Buck

I know god doesn't give me what I deserve. I am deeply grateful for that grace.

As for what you might deserve, well, that's between you and god.

Good night Buck. Hope you grow up someday.

78 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 10:53:13pm

re: #8 Buck

In this Jew's opinion, to say that Evangelical Christians only aim is to see all Jews betrayed by the Anti-Christ and then die horribly, is nothing short of hate speech.

Stupid post, since you don't know jack crud about any iteration of "Evangelical Christians".

Nobody has said that about them.

But hey, it's your identity-constitution...if you want to overidentify with people complete with a subset who hates you, me, and everyone who doesn't switch to their way of life, well, you're a conservative. Self-loathing is foundational to your lifestyle choice.

79 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 10:57:51pm

re: #74 Buck

You know this do you?

Interesting question, coming from you.

You're willing to speak for all "Evangelical Christians" as to what they "believe", only having read it on the internet.

You're willing to speak for "conservative your blacks", haha funny joke, as if you know what everyone experiences and deals with, and what their responses are.

You don't know jack crud about either group of people, yet like a good conformist, thought-stopped conservative are simply repeating what you have read.

80 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 11:04:42pm

re: #72 Buck

If they can slander all evangelical christians, and paint them with this wide brush, who will be next?

When you married the Straw Man, did you take his last name, or did he take yours?

Who is slandering "all evangelical christians"?

You don't know anything about even SOME "evangelical christians" to be defending them on a blanket basis.

Evangelical Christianity is a big universe. You should learn about it before stumbling all over yourself to try and smile in their face to impress them. No wonder you are overidentified with Herman Cain.

81 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 11:31:58pm

re: #50 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, that's the thread where Buck lost me. No more trying to be civil with him.

Trying to be civil to defenders of anti-Black, Christian-supremacist eliminationists is a waste of time.

82 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 11:45:23pm

re: #9 Obdicut

Can you name a variety of evangelical Christianity that does not believe in an apocalyptic eschatology involving the rebuilding of the temple, Buck?

I can name several. Buck cannot.

83 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 12:43:24am

re: #69 Buck

Due to the nature of their beliefs I do sometimes make speciific negative generalizations about Islamists/Islamic fundamentalists and groups like Wahhabis. Also about Jehovah's Witnesses and Scientologists. That is not OK also?

84 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 12:50:33am

re: #70 Buck

Just as an aside, according to many here, you just used as a source an known anti semite, and his views on the "religious right", as he likes to call it, cannot be separated from his antisemitism. Which makes you guilty of something... I want you to know I don't subscribe to that.

Stupid move, Buck. No analogy whatsoever. Robertson did it knowingly.

85 JEA62  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 5:00:48am

I wonder why more Jews don't get that.

As for Evangelicals, they're consistently contemptuous of every other religion as well as Judaism. Including some forms of their own.

As for Robertson, he's about power, not religion. And he has no problem being absolutely amoral in getting his folks into power.

86 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:45:23am

re: #79 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You're willing to speak for all "Evangelical Christians" as to what they "believe", only having read it on the internet.

Exactly the opposite. I am saying that no one can speak for all "Evangelical Christians", and that this post slanders the good with the bad by generalizing.

87 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:48:35am

re: #80 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Who is slandering "all evangelical christians"?

You came to the discussion late, and I suppose didn't bother to read the post, or my #8 or my #10 where I answer that question.

88 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:14:54am

@Buck

I never said fringe?

The vast majority of fringe evangelicals in the United States are waiting with baited breath for the only thing that can satisfy the prophecies that they have been taught. The rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem.

It seems that actually I did describe the people I was talking about as fringe and you just claim not to have seen it, (what else is new?).

Considering that I was raised in one of the many Evangelical Christian denominations that believes this as "Gospel" and have first hand experience with their stated intentions and desires towards Israel I feel like I am somewhat more qualified to comment on this subject than you seem to be.

The things I said in my original post that you "claim" (I know your just trolling) to find objectionable about fringe evangelicals are nothing that I have not heard from my own mother, by other church members, and by our Pastor on some Sundays.

I actually do know what I am talking about here, while apparently you do not, but don't let that stop you from having fun by stirring shit for your own enjoyment. :p

89 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:24:15am

re: #22 CuriousLurker

I could help to notice your hypocrisy is showing:

#9 CuriousLurker Sun, Nov 6, 2011 12:32:41pm

Wow, so LGF is back to screeds about the "RoP" now, huh? Good to know where people stand.

AS I state multiple times here, in this and many other threads. Generalizations about a religious groups are harmful.

You think you can pick and choose who can be grouped in that way?

You can't. Support this attack on all Evangelical Christians, and you have nothing to stand on when they attack all Muslims.

90 CuriousLurker  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:30:18am

re: #89 Buck

Keep trying, Buck. :)

91 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:37:02am

re: #88 ausador

Your experience with your parents and pastor do not give you the insight to know what everyone in that group thinks.

So, you now what to say that you were only talking about a tiny subsection of evangelicals? I mean that could mean just the church you went to. Is that what you meant?

Not even the whole tiny subsection, but at least more than half of that tiny subsection of the whole.

The majority of the the fringe.

BTW, I say many times that you used the word, however you never actually "talk about the fringe". You don't describe it, you don't explain it, and you use the word only once. It is not very good cover for the rest of the post where you don't use it, or any other word to mean a subgroup.

In fact your title and first sentence are very clear.

"what it is that would make any Jew cozy up to Evangelical Christians whose only aim is to see them all betrayed by the Anti-Christ and then die horribly"

Whose only aim is to see (Jews) all betrayed by the Anti-Christ and then die horribly? Well... Evangelical Christians of course...

92 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:40:15am

re: #91 Buck

It's weird that your main defense of evangelical Christians is to say they don't really believe in their religion.

93 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:49:52am

re: #90 CuriousLurker

Keep trying, Buck. :)

No, obviously you have a closed mind about this. You don't seem to think that Condell gets any cover by mentioning extremists from time to time. However you give cover to this.

I actually think that if you think about it, you will see the similarities. Or you will be only offended when people attack your sacred cows... not really sure, but I remain hopeful.

94 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:58:42am

re: #92 Obdicut

It's weird that your main defense of evangelical Christians is to say they don't really believe in their religion.

Again you lie. I have already replied to that comment before.

In my #42 I tell you point blank that I am not doing that.

I am saying that ausador is generalizing about evangelical Christians. And he is saying things about them that are not only not true, but are also offensive.

I am not defending evangelical Christians. They don't need me to defend them. I am offended by the mean spirited, false, hate filled comments made. As I explain clearly in my #4, I would be just as offended if it were any other group that was being slandered in that way.

95 CuriousLurker  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 12:03:08pm

re: #93 Buck

The day I start to care about your opinion of me is the day I'll start defending myself from your assertions. Today is not that day.

Your behavior is starting to seem stalkerish.

96 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 12:04:35pm

re: #94 Buck

How is it a lie?

You are saying that Evangelical Christians don't actually have the aim of bringing the kingdom of Jesus to earth. For most evangelical Christians, they really do believe that their works, their actions, stances, and behavior have a part in bringing that about. And that process does, for the majority of evangelical Christians, involve the rapture, which does involve a very tiny minority of Jews being saved, and the rest perishing and being damned.

Are you saying that Evangelical Christians do not see a role for themselves in bringing god's plan to fruit?

97 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 12:10:20pm

re: #96 Obdicut

How is it a lie?

You are saying that Evangelical Christians don't actually have the aim of bringing the kingdom of Jesus to earth.

It is a lie because I have told you, multiple times, that I am not saying that. You keep putting words into my mouth, and I keep correcting you.

I have told you that it is not the topic. I am clear about what I am saying in my #8, and #10.

You would like me to be questioning Evangelical Christians, certainly. AND you think that by repeating it, people will remember what you say, and ignore my correcting you.

You have a habit of this, and it is not an accident.

98 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 12:11:28pm

re: #97 Buck

It is a lie because I have told you, multiple times, that I am not saying that. You keep putting words into my mouth, and I keep correcting you.

Then you're contradicting yourself.

Again:

Are you saying that Evangelical Christians do not see a role for themselves in bringing god's plan to fruit?

99 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 12:14:30pm

re: #98 Obdicut

Then you're contradicting yourself.

Again:

Are you saying that Evangelical Christians do not see a role for themselves in bringing god's plan to fruit?

Not relevant to the conversation. This post is saying that what ever role Evangelical Christians see for themselves, the real plan is to use the jews and dispose of them as soon as it is convenient. That Evangelical Christians as a group, support for Israel is for purely selfish reasons, and insincere.

100 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 12:18:15pm

re: #99 Buck

That Evangelical Christians as a group, support for Israel is for purely selfish reasons, and insincere.

Why are you calling their belief in their own religion selfish and insincere?

Are you saying that their support for Israel is not religiously-based?

101 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 12:27:21pm

How you can twist my opposition to anyone saying that Evangelical Christians as a group, support for Israel is for purely selfish reasons, and insincere, as the same thing as my saying that I would support anyone saying their belief in their own religion selfish and insincere, is beyond belief.

There is zero connection, and once again you are trying to put words in my mouth. You have absolutely zero to back that up, yet you state it as if it were fact.

102 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 12:28:07pm

re: #101 Buck

Okay. Let's do baby steps.

Are you saying that their support for Israel is not religiously-based?

103 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 12:35:35pm

re: #102 Obdicut

Okay. Let's do baby steps.

Are you saying that their support for Israel is not religiously-based?

I am not interested in generalizing about a group of people, who I am sure will have many different reasons for why they support Israel. I am just very glad that so many do.

For example I am very glad when I hear people shoot down the Israel is apartheid slander (publicised most effectively by Evangelical Christian Jimmy Carter).

104 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 12:37:40pm

re: #103 Buck

Holy crap. You're actually saying you're not interested in the reasons people support Israel?

That doesn't strike you as wildly dangerous for Israel?

105 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 12:51:33pm

re: #104 Obdicut

Holy crap. You're actually saying you're not interested in the reasons people support Israel?

That doesn't strike you as wildly dangerous for Israel?

Holy crap.... You once again are putting words in my mouth.

I am not interested in generalizing about a group of people, who I am sure will have many different reasons for why they support Israel.

Does not equal

not interested in the reasons people support Israel?

Not in any language, especially your mother tongue.

ONE MORE TIME, you change what I say. Hoping that people will not see, or read my correcting you.

106 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 1:01:14pm

re: #105 Buck

Can you explain what you mean, then, by "I am not interested in generalizing about a group of people, who I am sure will have many different reasons for why they support Israel. I am just very glad that so many do."?

How is saying that you're just glad they do so not saying that you don't care about why they do? You say that you just care that they do.

Did you misspeak?

I'm happy for anyone, ever, to read any of our exchanges, Buck. From your stupid attempt to imply I'm on medication, to your refusal to actually look at the documented reasons why evangelical leaders like Robertson have stated that they support Israel, you show yourself to extremely ill effect.

107 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 1:26:59pm

re: #106 Obdicut

I am sure will have many different reasons.

I am not interested in generalizing.

These sentences do NOT confuse you, they just are not what you want to hear.

108 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 1:30:01pm

re: #107 Buck

Aren't you generalizing when you say that they support Israel?

Why is that generalization okay with you, but figuring out why they support Israel is bad?

109 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 1:41:53pm

How can "I am just very glad that so many do." be a generalization? OH when you remove the adjective.... When you change what I actually said.

"I am just very glad that so many do." Not a generalization.

Yes, I am glad many seem to, and they have many different reasons. When a person shows support for Israel, I am not suspicious and automatically think that it is insincere.

I read, or hear what they say, and when they say put conditions on their support, like saying they could only really support Israel fully IF the whole world were changed away from an oil-based economy... I get worried.

Or when they describe Netanyahu views as propaganda.... I get worried.

Or when they question, and consider the idea of Israel as a perpetually Jewish state as problematic.... I think they might just not be as fully supportive as I might have hoped.

110 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 1:46:33pm

re: #109 Buck

I read, or hear what they say, and when they say put conditions on their support, like saying they could only really support Israel fully IF the whole world were changed away from an oil-based economy... I get worried.

So what do you think of Robertson's statements on why he supports Israel?

111 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 1:49:31pm

re: #16 Buck

The future LGF will look on this post the way you look on the posts of LGF from those who are banned now.

Oh, i just noticed this part.

What the hell does this mean? Are you considering yourself psychic again? Are you expecting to inherit LGF or something? Why do you think this will come to pass?

112 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 1:58:31pm

re: #110 Obdicut

So what do you think of Robertson's statements on why he supports Israel?

Like what I said about this 2004 speech that I commented directly on in my #11 ????

113 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 1:59:47pm

re: #112 Buck

Exactly.

We believe that God has a plan for this nation which He intends to be a blessing to all the nations of the earth.

What plan does Robertson believe god has for Israel?

114 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:03:02pm

re: #111 Obdicut

Oh, i just noticed this part.

What the hell does this mean? Are you considering yourself psychic again? Are you expecting to inherit LGF or something? Why do you think this will come to pass?

It means that many today look at some of the posts on LGF from before Obama was elected as bigoted against Islam (I do not). I consider this post to be bigoted against evangelical Christians. I think (my opinion is) that years from now people will look on this type of post and think that only the focus of the bigotry changed.

115 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:05:48pm

re: #114 Buck

Um. You manage to contradict yourself even there. If there was no actual bigotry towards Muslims, as you believe, then how will people think that 'only the focus of the bigotry changed'?

116 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:09:01pm

re: #113 Obdicut

Exactly.

What plan does Robertson believe god has for Israel?

Funny that you can't seem to read the absolute next sentence in his speech.

You would have to assume the worse if you could not see that he explains his personal view very clearly.

"He intends to be a blessing to all the nations of the earth."

117 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:11:55pm

re: #116 Buck

You're seriously claiming that's the extent of Robertson's belief of God's plan for Israel? That Israel forms no larger part of Robertson's eschatological beliefs?

What about this, which Robertson said about Sharon's stroke?


“[Sharon] was dividing God's land and I would say woe unto any prime minister of Israel who takes a similar course to appease the EU, the United Nations, or the United States of America," Robertson said on his television program, “The 700 Club," Broadcast from his Christian Broadcasting Network in Virginia Beach. “God says 'this land belongs to me. You better leave it alone.’”
...

"[the prophet Joel] makes it very clear that God has enmity against those who ‘divide my land.’”

...

“God considers this land to be his. You read the Bible and he says ‘this is my land’, and for any prime minister of Israel who decides he is going to carve it up and give it away, God says ‘no’, this is mine.”

118 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:12:59pm

re: #115 Obdicut

Um. You manage to contradict yourself even there. If there was no actual bigotry towards Muslims, as you believe, then how will people think that 'only the focus of the bigotry changed'?

I said:

I think (my opinion is) that years from now people will look on this type of post and think that only the focus of the bigotry changed.

I think this will come to pass, my opinion is.....

that people will think that. Not that it will be so simple... not that I would fully agree with them. That it will look like it.

119 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:15:35pm

re: #118 Buck

Wow. What a useless comment. You think in the future people will think a certain way, but you won't fully agree with them. That's great, Buck. Glad you made that clear.

120 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:20:11pm

re: #117 Obdicut

We are going around in circles. How many times do you have to repeat what has already been covered? How many times will I have to refer back to what has already been answered?

#39

He is a religious person who often thinks he can find explanations for bad things in "gods will". I disagree with him, but I don't need to challenge his religious view.

Is that really your view of the evil plan Robertson believes god has for Israel? That it shouldn't be divided? This exposes Robertson as not liking the two state solution? I don't know what you think it shows.

Cue... the haiti quote?

121 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:22:34pm

re: #119 Obdicut

Wow. What a useless comment. You think in the future people will think a certain way, but you won't fully agree with them. That's great, Buck. Glad you made that clear.

Useless to you maybe. But thank you for giving me your opinion about it. I really wasn't taking a poll.

OK... I will write it down. Obdicut doesn't think that comment was a good one....

Anyone else?

hahahahaha

122 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:26:46pm

re: #120 Buck

Is that really your view of the evil plan Robertson believes god has for Israel? That it shouldn't be divided? This exposes Robertson as not liking the two state solution? I don't know what you think it shows.

No, Buck. I'm asking you to explain your view that Robertson's entire plan on Israel can be summed up by "He intends to be a blessing to all the nations of the earth."

Which is obvious bullshit.

Again: Do you think that Israel plays no role in Robertson's eschatological view of the world?

Where does he think the battle of Armageddon will be fought?

123 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:44:15pm

IF, as you seem to think, Robertson and all the other Evangelical Christians think that it is inevitable that the battle of Armageddon will be fought in the holy land, and that the Jews will all die horribly (except for the converted)...then why support Israel now? Do you think that they think god needs their help to make this happen? Does it say in the bible that they should support Israel only to make sure that gods will actually happens?

DO YOU REALLY think that Jews should REJECT the support they get from Christian Zionists because they should actually worry that the battle of Armageddon comes, they wont be able to count on the support continuing?

Lets be clear... If the Lord himself descends from heaven, and the dead in Christ rise.... the last thing the Jews will be thinking is "Damn we should not have believed those liar Evangelical Christians...."

What we are saying right now is "Damn where is the unconditional support we need from everyone to help stop these evil people from sending missiles into our nursery schools?" and "How can any person in any nation on earth stand by and let this happen?".

That second thing is a repeat of what we were saying only half a century ago. We didn't get a good answer then either.

124 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:46:26pm

re: #123 Buck

IF, as you seem to think, Robertson and all the other Evangelical Christians think that it is inevitable that the battle of Armageddon will be fought in the holy land,

Are you denying this is the truth?

125 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:48:04pm

re: #124 Obdicut

Are you denying this is the truth?

No what i am saying is that it is irrelevant to the discussion of (insert my #8 and my #10) here.

126 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:48:50pm

DO YOU REALLY think that Jews should REJECT the support they get from Christian Zionists because they should actually worry that the battle of Armageddon comes, they wont be able to count on the support continuing?

127 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:50:02pm

re: #126 Buck

Nope. I never said anything like that. And you whine about me putting words in your mouth.

How many nations of the earth does Robertson believe will attack Israel at once, Buck, as part of god's plan?

128 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:57:16pm

re: #127 Obdicut

Nope. I never said anything like that. And you whine about me putting words in your mouth.

I didn't put words in your mouth. I asked you a question.

One you fail to answer.

How many nations of the earth does Robertson believe will attack Israel at once, Buck, as part of god's plan?

All of them. Actually right now all of the nations on earth are attacking Israel and trying to take Jerusalem away. The UN, which represents all of the nations on earth is united in the idea of taking Jerusalem from Israel.

I have been told multiple times by people here that EVERY country thinks that Israel should not have sovereignty over the City of Gold, Jerusalem and should not be allowed to build in Jerusalem.

So? He keeps up with current events. So what?

129 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 2:59:00pm

re: #128 Buck

So, you understand that Robertson thinks that the USA will attack Israel one day. And that he thinks that time will be soon, since he's said the end times are coming. And this is someone who's support Israel needs, someone who thinks that god's plan involves the United States attacking Israel.

Really?

130 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 3:04:49pm

re: #126 Buck

DO YOU REALLY think that Jews should REJECT the support they get from Christian Zionists because they should actually worry that the battle of Armageddon comes, they wont be able to count on the support continuing?

It doesn't matter if the support materializes or not. It's really simple, people trying to maneuver Israel into another war for their own religious fulfillment aren't Israel's friends.

131 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 3:08:13pm

re: #129 Obdicut

So, you understand that Robertson thinks that the USA will attack Israel one day. And that he thinks that time will be soon, since he's said the end times are coming. And this is someone who's support Israel needs, someone who thinks that god's plan involves the United States attacking Israel.

Really?

The word attack is being interpreted by you literally.

Robertson is quoted saying this:

the "battle of Jerusalem," when "the forces of all nations come together and try to take Jerusalem away from the Jews. Jews are not going to give up Jerusalem — they shouldn't — and the rest of the world is going to insist they give it up.

And yes, it could seem to many, that when the USA, along with the rest of the world, insist that Jerusalem should be anything but the united city it is, and the Capital of Israel (ie try to take Jerusalem away) they are attacking Israel.

It certainly looks that way to me. Yes, I think that any country that thinks Israel should give up Jerusalem is attacking Israel.

There. I said it. Oh wait.... you already knew that about me. You know that I don't think Israel should give up Jerusalem to anyone.

What do you think about Jerusalem? Do you think it should be given up? Do you think that Jerusalem's final status is still to be negotiated?

Are you one of the people who is trying to take Jerusalem away from the Jews?

132 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 3:10:08pm

re: #130 goddamnedfrank

It doesn't matter if the support materializes or not. It's really simple, people trying to maneuver Israel into another war for their own religious fulfillment aren't Israel's friends.

Israel is not being manoeuvred into a war by Christians of any variety. If Israel goes to war it will be in self defence, and it wont be against Christians.

133 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 3:14:07pm

Come on Obdicut.... take a position on Jerusalem.

I will even let you change your mind when Armageddon comes..

134 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 3:18:31pm

re: #131 Buck

You're done, dude. You're happily defending Pat Robertson. I have nothing more I need to say. A guy who thinks armageddon is on its way and that all the nations of earth will attack Israel in fulfillment of god's plan, and who thinks all the Jews who then do not convert will be damned to hell.

That's the ally you're happy with.

I'll ignore your usual pathetic attempts to smear me as anti-Israel.

It's funny. You'll happily accept Pat Robertson's support of Israel, the man who said that Sharon's stroke was god's will, the man who believes observant Jews are damned to hell, but you won't accept my support because it's based on Israel being a democracy.

Funny old world.

135 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 3:23:48pm

re: #131 Buck

This is why we have contempt for you

136 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 3:25:30pm

I accept your support.

So this sentence is a lie:

you won't accept my support because it's based on Israel being a democracy.

And it is putting words in my mouth..

AND you put words in Robertson's mouth as well. All the nations on earth ARE attacking Israel regarding Jerusalem. He is saying he is against giving up Jerusalem. He might even be saying that Israel holding on to Jerusalem is gods plan. I am quite sure he would not ask someone to go against gods plan.

Now, why are you avoiding my question?

What is YOUR position on Jerusalem?

137 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 3:26:22pm

re: #136 Buck

lol armageddon

138 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 3:28:25pm

re: #135 WindUpBird

This is why we have contempt for you

Well I don't know you well enough for me to have contempt for you.

I know you like to jump to conclusions and make judgements about me that are not even close to true. I know you have called me homophobic, and said that I don't care about gays....(I admit that one hurt a little bit).

But I don't hate you. I don't know you.

139 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 3:31:30pm

re: #137 WindUpBird

lol armageddon

Ya, it is really funny.

140 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 3:34:58pm

re: #139 Buck

Ya, it is really funny.

that you're waving it around on a blog? hilarious!

141 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 3:41:33pm

re: #140 WindUpBird

that you're waving it around on a blog? hilarious!

I am? It is in the original post at the top of the page? I am not the author.... you know that right? I don't even use the term until I am asked about it.

I am waving it around? Not likely.

142 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 3:47:00pm

In Buck's 'defense' the "I will even let you change your mind when Armageddon comes.." is just his terrible and tactless sense of humor.

143 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 3:52:16pm

re: #131 Buck

What do you think about Jerusalem? Do you think it should be given up? Do you think that Jerusalem's final status is still to be negotiated?

Are you one of the people who is trying to take Jerusalem away from the Jews?

LOL.

NETANYAHU: I want Jerusalem a united city for sure. But that’s the way I go — These are not preconditions for negotiations. They’re positions in the negotiations. The final positions come out after a negotiation. I don’t think it makes sense, and I think it’s just not wise, it’s even silly, to come forward and say well I’ll offer this percent, you know, with a decimal point –

CHARLIE ROSE: Of land.

NETANYAHU: Of land. That’s what the negotiations are for.

...

With all the flip-flopping, assessing exactly where Netanyahu stands on Jerusalem — whether it will “never” be divided or is part of the final status issues for negotiations — remains to be seen. But his latest comments, to an American television audience, seem to indicate that he’s open to giving a future Palestinian state sovereignty over Arab parts of East Jerusalem. If that’s the case, his position matches up exactly with President Obama, raising questions about the attacks on the President by Netanyahu’s closest stateside allies for being a “divide(r)” of Jerusalem.

So are you and Pat going to cheer on Bibi's death now that he's acknowledged the obvious and inevitable truth, that Jerusalem's fate is up for negotiation?

144 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:34:45am

re: #133 Buck

I will even let you change your mind when Armageddon comes..

BRING IT ON, INVISIBLE SKY SANTA!

145 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:54:33am

A final note: Robertson's support for Israel is conditional on Israel not giving away any land. This is a clear way that his support is conditional in a very, very dangerous way. Israel may-- and Bibi has stated his intention to-- swap land for security. Robertson will not support that.

A clear, practical way that his support is conditional.

146 The Mongoose  Thu, Nov 10, 2011 12:20:14pm

My Jewish family wants nothing to do with crazed Evengelical support for Israel. I disagree with them on the following grounds:

There are only 2 possible outcomes to the prophecies.

1) The Evangelicals are wrong. The world never ends, at least not as envisioned. They go on supporting Israel forever, waiting for it to happen.

2) The Evangelicals are right. Jesus Christ returns and starts dropping miracles all over the place. At this point, I will gladly concede that I had it wrong. Wouldn't we all?

Either way, there's no harm in accepting Evangelical support for Israel...unless of course one believes said support is actually more likely to bring about scenario #2. :)

/Tounge-in-cheek


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Political Extremism: Cambridge U Study Shows Psychological Profile of Extremists Cambridge University in the UK did a study on whether there is a common psychological denominator to civil unrest, and Hoo Boy, does THIS ever sound familiar: Psychologists are now asking what turns the civil discord common in partisan ...
Khal Wimpo (exhaling for 1st time in 4 yrs)
3 hours, 56 minutes ago
Views: 80 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 7 •
Tomorrow - Jimmy Wahlsteen, Vincent VegaProvided to YouTube by Epidemic Sound Tomorrow · Jimmy Wahlsteen · Vincent Vega Epidemic Presents: Crates (M. Bison Edition) ℗ Epidemic Sound Released on: 2020-03-13 Producer: Kasper LindgrenComposer: Jimmy Wahlsteen Auto-generated by YouTube.
Thanos
22 hours, 13 minutes ago
Views: 193 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 210221The waterfall bilge pump died three weeks ago.We're trying something new.Saturday we test installed two tiny aquarium pumps to get the waterfall going again.These pumps are very small but are designed to run all the time. Bilge pumps aren't. Though ...
Dangerman
1 day, 2 hours ago
Views: 217 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 3
Tweets: 0 •
The Staves - Best Friend [Live at Lafayette] The Staves - Best Friend [Live at Lafayette] Our new album 'Good Woman' is out now: lnk.to Follow The Staves:Facebook thestaves.lnk.toTwitter thestaves.lnk.toInstagram thestaves.lnk.to YouTube thestaves.lnk.toSpotify thestaves.lnk.toiTunes thestaves.lnk.to When I could be anythingThat I wanted OhWe could be better thanBetter ...
Thanos
4 days, 16 hours ago
Views: 629 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
Sting - Shape of My Heart (Official Music Video)REMASTERED IN HD!Official Video For Sting's "Shape Of My Heart".#Sting #ShapeOfMyHeart #Remastered
Thanos
4 days, 20 hours ago
Views: 740 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •
Amy Macdonald - Statues (Single Mix) (Official Audio) One of Amy's best features is that she doesn't "Americanize" her singing voice, something too many UK performers do. The Official Audio for Statues (Single Mix) by Amy Macdonald, taken from the new album 'The Human Demands'. Listen now: ...
Thanos
4 days, 21 hours ago
Views: 756 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
KALEO - Break My Baby (LIVE From Þrídrangar, Iceland) Break My Baby - Live from Þrídrangar - Iceland Music and Lyrics by JJ Julius Son Stream/Download: kaleo.lnk.to Þrídrangar means “three rock pillars” and is located 4.5 miles from Iceland's south coast. In 1939, three of Westman Islands' best ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,513 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 6 •
Lake Street Dive - Hypotheticals [From Phantom Studios] Video Directed + Produced by Alex Chaloff for Bucket's Moving CompanyRecorded at Phantom Studios, Gallatin TN"Hypotheticals" from the upcoming Lake Street Dive album ObviouslyOut March 12th on Nonesuch RecordsPre-Order Obviously NOW: smarturl.it Produced by Mike ElizondoRachael Price: vocalsMike “McDuck” ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,287 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 4 •
Jon Batiste - CRY (Lyric Video) Listen to “CRY” and order my album ‘WE ARE’: jon-batiste.lnk.to Shop merch: jonbatistestore.com Follow Jon:Instagram: jon-batiste.lnk.toFacebook: jon-batiste.lnk.toTwitter: jon-batiste.lnk.toSpotify: jon-batiste.lnk.to Apple Music: jon-batiste.lnk.toAmazon: jon-batiste.lnk.toSoundcloud: jon-batiste.lnk.toPandora: jon-batiste.lnk.toYouTube Music: jon-batiste.lnk.to Official Website: jonbatiste.com Video Credits:Director: Charles ToddDirector of Photography: Ben CareyProducer: Brian ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,684 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 5 •
Robert Fripp & Peter Gabriel - Here Comes the Flood (1979) [RV VERSION] Robert Fripp & Peter Gabriel - Here Comes The Flood (1979) [RV VERSION] #Peter gabriel robert fripp here comes the flood#Robert fripp peter gabriel flood#robert fripp peter gabriel flood#gabriel fripp here comes the floodhere comes the flood#Fripp#Peter#Gabriel#robert fripp#King crimson ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,387 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 6 •