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1 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 3:34:29am

David Brin! awesome!

2 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:16:57am

I loathed 300. Sparta was a freaking military dictatorship so why would they give a hoot about freedom? Haven't read the graphic novel but the movie made me think of the work Leni Riefenstahl did for the Nazis.

I read Miller's screed yesterday and I retched a little. The man spoke like the Occupy people were the villains in one of his Batman works. The Manichaean mindset works fine in comics, but it sucks for a mind set in the real world.

3 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:20:35am

re: #2 Romantic Heretic

I loathed 300. Sparta was a freaking military dictatorship so why would they give a hoot about freedom?

In ancient times everyone was an asshole.

4 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:46:33am

re: #3 Sergey Romanov

In ancient times everyone was an asshole.

Some of them, like Socrates, were my kind of asshole though.

5 Tigger2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:02:23am

People can hate, mock and dismiss the OWS movement if they want to, but it's only going to grow as the income inequality continues to grow in this country.

6 dragonath  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 11:27:48am

I like Brin. The first time I found out about him was the Ecco video game for the Dreamcast. He gets around!

I really hate seeing artists going off the deep end. Rick Veitch just published a Truther comic book a couple of months ago.

7 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 11:35:20am

re: #3 Sergey Romanov

In ancient times everyone was an asshole.

Yeah. My quibble with Brin is that the Athenians were better than the Spartans, but the Athenians still had slaves.

8 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 11:41:16am

The Maccabees kicked Hellenist ass.

9 tophergraceless  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 11:48:10am

re: #7 Obdicut

This is true. But I look at Athens the much the same way I look at early America. Sure they owned slaves and did horrible things, but we are forever grateful for the democratic system they created. The Spartans left nothing behind, no philosophers, artists, poets, art, architecture, theater, or important political thought. The Spartans were a brutal society that held in contempt much of what made Athens an immortal culture.

10 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 11:54:02am

re: #9 tophergraceless

Sure. I just think Brin's argument would have been strengthened by acknowledging the slaves of Athens.

11 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 2:45:57pm

OK, that's hilarious.

I'm not exactly all that gone on the Athenians, either, but I really didn't care for 300--and I really didn't care for people glomming onto it with modern politics as they did. (Hint: the Persians weren't even Muslims then, folks. Calm the eff down.)

Marathon would make one hell of a movie, BTW, if we still did sword and sandal epics.

12 windsagio  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 3:53:21pm

re: #8 Alouette

Whats that got to do with what?

13 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 3:54:11pm

re: #9 tophergraceless

not true! They left behind some football teams! :D

14 windsagio  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 3:58:46pm

re: #7 Obdicut

The problem is its not an absolute black/white thing.

The Athenians still had slaves, but they were still a billion times better than the Spartans were.

15 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:59:12pm

re: #14 windsagio

The problem is its not an absolute black/white thing.

The Athenians still had slaves, but they were still a billion times better than the Spartans were.

Internally, they were. Externally, the dynamism of Athens made them worse than Sparta in some ways, as witness their transformation of the Delian League into an effective Athenian Empire. That having been said, a Spartan helot was doomed to be a serf for life, and if he seemed too smart or capable the Spartans would have him killed secretly. In Athens, a slave of great capability would often be out to work at a less menial job and would sometimes have the chance to be freed. Within their respective social orders, life was better in Athens for all strata of society. Sparta had strength of arms, but little else.

But even so, one would still rather have the disciplined 300 march through your territory (if you were non-hostile to them) than a OWS rabble. Unless they are hostile to you, a disciplined bunch of assholes will still do less damage than an undisciplined bunch of decent people.

16 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:10:55pm

re: #14 windsagio

The problem is its not an absolute black/white thing.

How is that a problem, given that I wasn't representing it as a black and white thing?

This is an article criticizing 300 about historical inaccuracy and its use in polemic. I pointed out a much smaller historical inaccuracy in the article, and said the article would be stronger with it.

How on earth is that black and white?

17 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:47:30pm

re: #15 Dark_Falcon

And I'm proud to be part of the rabble :)


Watch out! I might rape ya!

18 windsagio  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:48:09pm

re: #16 Obdicut

I... haha I had a whole response written out, and then checked your #7 again.

I thought you said the Athenians weren't better than the Spartans because they had slaves too.


Apparently reading comprehension is exceptionally difficult sometimes..


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