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1 researchok  Mon, Dec 5, 2011 2:00:15am

You might wonder why the SEC would get into bed with Citibank.

Unless of course Citi is holding something over the SEC's head- as in the real amount of the bailout money, the conditions under which it was given out and the documents that were never to be made public.

Rakoff rightly won't have any of it.

He's the real hero here.

2 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Dec 5, 2011 2:08:17am

re: #1 researchok

You might wonder why the SEC would get into bed with Citibank.

Unless of course Citi is holding something over the SEC's head- as in the real amount of the bailout money, the conditions under which it was given out and the documents that were never to be made public.

Rakoff rightly won't have any of it.

He's the real hero here.

Wait, I thought the un-disclosed money was between the Federal Reserve and the Clearing House Banks. SEC wasn't involved --no?

I hate to use the word: Collusion, but I can't think of another. The good Ole Boy club is alive and well between Wall Street and D.C.

3 researchok  Mon, Dec 5, 2011 2:22:35am

re: #2 ggt

Have you seen this?

What Did Paulson Know, When Did Geithner Know It?

When folks get educated about the machinations, OWS will seem like a tea and biscuits.

4 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Dec 5, 2011 2:43:22am

re: #3 researchok

Have you seen this?

What Did Paulson Know, When Did Geithner Know It?

When folks get educated about the machinations, OWS will seem like a tea and biscuits.

If they do. It's a lot of work to be educated on a subject that is a) generally not of interest and b) work to learn.

I know, I've been doing it for a few weeks now. I won't hold my breathe to think there are tons of others out there doing it.

Perhaps if it could be put onto a video game format . . .

I understand that part of what goes on is behind closed doors. Transparency sounds good, but it isn't always practical. I get that. I would like there to be some REAL consequences for those who don't go into those deals in good faith with a sense of responsibility to the citizens whose money they play with.

5 researchok  Mon, Dec 5, 2011 2:48:45am

re: #4 ggt

Well, you've been doing a damn good job of it.

As for transparency, you are right to note complete transparency might not be a good idea. That said, some would be most helpful.

For me, what is most outrageous is the lack of real Congressional oversight. Lots of dirty hands, I'm afraid.

6 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Dec 5, 2011 3:01:12am

re: #5 researchok

Well, you've been doing a damn good job of it.

As for transparency, you are right to note complete transparency might not be a good idea. That said, some would be most helpful.

For me, what is most outrageous is the lack of real Congressional oversight. Lots of dirty hands, I'm afraid.

Thank you! I appreciate the support.

I am beginning to think that securitization is too complex for the market share it seemed to have. It's a great idea, but needs to be highly regulated and perhaps limited as to who can participate. I'm not sure the rank n' file employee at either an investment house or the various government agencies can fathom it. I barely can. It's almost too abstract.

7 researchok  Mon, Dec 5, 2011 3:11:59am

re: #6 ggt

Thank you! I appreciate the support.

I am beginning to think that securitization is too complex for the market share it seemed to have. It's a great idea, but needs to be highly regulated and perhaps limited as to who can participate. I'm not sure the rank n' file employee at either an investment house or the various government agencies can fathom it. I barely can. It's almost too abstract.

It's been made a lot more complicated than it needs to be.

That keeps folks away- just the way they like it. The moment it's explained the outrage is palatable.

There isn't enough lipstick to pretty up the Citi story, for example.

Rakoff made that clear and expressed the sentiments of most everyone with even a passing familiarity with the story.

8 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Dec 5, 2011 3:43:53am

Securitization is one big fraudulent scam. It's nothing else but the undermining of functioning credit market operations by obfuscating and severing the ties between creditor and debtor, and the deceptional sale of obligations as assets.

9 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Dec 5, 2011 3:52:03am

re: #8 000G

between creditor and debtor

and – more importantly – between collateral and own capital.

10 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Dec 5, 2011 3:53:18am

re: #8 000G

Securitization is one big fraudulent scam. It's nothing else but the undermining of functioning credit market operations by obfuscating and severing the ties between creditor and debtor, and the deceptional sale of obligations as assets.

Securitization of true asset backed loans makes sense to me. Credit Card debt?

the betting on cash flow is problematic, IMHO.

11 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:51:36am

re: #10 ggt

Securitization of true asset backed loans makes sense to me. Credit Card debt?

If the credit card companies cannot manage the debt of the borrowers that they gave loans to to begin with, then they need to be regulated to do that or just scrapped.

The traditional calculi of credit market operations must be defended or restored, i.e. proper collateralization on behalf of borrowers and holding of own capital on behalf of lenders so that loans don't automatically bankrupt (or make eligible for bailouts) economic entities in case of default; phasing out of bailout guarantees in order for debt servicing incentives to be restored; mandatory periodical and proper auditing of borrowers to make sure their economic standing is sound enough to generate the revenue neccessary to pay back loans plus interest, as well as mandatory periodical and proper auditing of lending institutions to ensure accounting, capitalization etc. are on the level – the more on the public bailout dime, the deeper.


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