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1 theheat  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:22:26am

The fact that in this day and age this even needs to be discussed infuriates me. It’s clinging to a backwards ideology under the guise of tradition. It’s bullshit.

2 sagehen  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:31:32am

Israel really needs to start thinking about changing the laws that let the Haredi be such assholes.

They don’t have jobs or pay taxes, they live off government stipends because they’re supposedly so devoted to scholarly pursuits, they don’t do military service, they’re outbreeding the people who do work and pay taxes and carry guns to support them and protect them… and now they’re throwing rocks at the soldiers and disrupting transportation and demanding to make foreign and domestic policy. Fuck ‘em.

Maybe people who refuse to be part of society shouldn’t get to vote. There’s nothing in the Torah about voting, is there?

3 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:54:26am

re: #2 sagehen

Wow, I had no idea that Israel had created a class of protected (and subsidized?) fanatics. Weird.

4 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:13:52am

re: #2 sagehen

Israel really needs to start thinking about changing the laws that let the Haredi be such assholes.

They don’t have jobs or pay taxes, they live off government stipends because they’re supposedly so devoted to scholarly pursuits, they don’t do military service, they’re outbreeding the people who do work and pay taxes and carry guns to support them and protect them… and now they’re throwing rocks at the soldiers and disrupting transportation and demanding to make foreign and domestic policy. Fuck ‘em.

Maybe people who refuse to be part of society shouldn’t get to vote. There’s nothing in the Torah about voting, is there?

I was just told off by some posters at Harry’s Place that I can’t be a “real” Haredi because I have a job and write a blog and my son was in the IDF.

5 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:17:04am

Ovadiah Yosef infuriates me, but I’m pleased to hear this. The stringency crazies are getting entirely out of hand. Let someone with a voice in the Torah world tell them they’re being idiots, maybe they’ll listen.

6 Bob Levin  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:09:25pm

re: #5 SanFranciscoZionist

Many rabbis are saying this—but the argument has to play itself out. Those making up the halacha will not win this. But, it’s going to be an argument, and it’s going to take many twists and turns. Some of the halachic improvisers are starting their own bus lines. We have to see the extent of government involvement. Many variables. And the state may indeed cut back on some of their exemptions. Who knows, they may get their own prisons.

7 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:12:20pm
There is no prohibition on sitting next to a strange woman. Looking at her? Yes. Smelling her perfume? Yes. But sitting next to her? Take off your glasses, don’t look.”

And hold your nose, I presume? ;)

8 EiMitch  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:37:07pm

I’m an atheist, but I have no problem with religious people, so long as they don’t take their beliefs too seriously. If they do take it seriously, they become these kind of a-holes, or AFA, or the Taliban, or…

Religious fanaticism needs to end. People of all creeds need lessons on morality that emphasize the difference between:

- real morals, which are about treating other people better, and

- tyrannical morals, which are all about brainwashing, shaming, vilifying, and otherwise controlling people.

9 Bob Levin  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:51:52pm

re: #8 EiMitch

That’s the problem. They are acting as though they are serious. They are not. They wouldn’t last three seconds in a Talmudic discussion.


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