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1 EiMitch  Jan 11, 2012 3:48:01pm

Religious nuts love to invoke the 1st amendment when it suits them. But when it doesn’t, they get all up in arms shouting about the evil liberal atheist conspiracy trying to destroy this christian nation. “Freedom for me, but not for thee.”

I know, I know. There will always be hypocrites. But it still bothers me.

2 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Jan 11, 2012 9:24:42pm

The exception, Alito wrote, “should apply to any ‘employee’ who leads a religious organization, conducts worship services or important religious ceremonies or rituals or serves as a messenger or teacher of its faith.”

And there’s the core of the argument right there. If she had been an accountant or janitor, the case would be different, but part of her job was religious, and therefore she was in a different category.

Now, religions should be honest, and if a teacher has the opportunity to move from category A to category B, they should explain to her what the difference is, just as an employee who goes from hourly to salaried should have explained to them that they will no longer receive overtime pay.

3 Dark_Falcon  Jan 11, 2012 9:35:52pm

re: #2 EmmmieG

The exception, Alito wrote, “should apply to any ‘employee’ who leads a religious organization, conducts worship services or important religious ceremonies or rituals or serves as a messenger or teacher of its faith.”

And there’s the core of the argument right there. If she had been an accountant or janitor, the case would be different, but part of her job was religious, and therefore she was in a different category.

Now, religions should be honest, and if a teacher has the opportunity to move from category A to category B, they should explain to her what the difference is, just as an employee who goes from hourly to salaried should have explained to them that they will no longer receive overtime pay.

They were honest on that score. She had to take a course and be approved as a Lutheran minister. She did it out of conviction, but also because becoming a minister made her what is known as a “called” teacher (“called” of course refers to those called to preach the Good News of the Gospel). And while “lay” teachers worked on 1 year contracts, “called” teachers held open-ended contracts and could not be fired without cause. So she knew she was becoming a religious employee when she did it.

4 goddamnedfrank  Jan 11, 2012 11:50:13pm

What the fuck does medically controlled narcolepsy have to do with her ministerial duties? Is the church’s position that her ailment is caused by demonic possession, because this sounds like an incredibly primitive reason to fire her. The idea that they can fire her for any reason whatsoever carries with it some pretty sick implications; they could fire her for getting raped, the Catholic Church could fire a priest for sharing information with the police about another priest sexually abusing children. This ruling is very poorly thought out in my opinion.

5 BishopX  Jan 12, 2012 11:49:10am

re: #4 goddamnedfrank

My understanding was that her bringing suit in civil court rather than using an internal mediation process was the “religious dispute”. That said, there are no good options in this case. The government should not have the ability influence who the leaders of religious groups are and religious groups should not have the ability to disciminate under the guise of religious freedom. The supreme court basiaclly said that the establishment clause was more important than the ADA, which makes sense given that the establishment clause is written in the constitution and the authority for the ADA is inly implied through the commerce clause. Note that the ruling is fairly narrow in how it applies to employment, the problem being that the government can’t force religious groups to hire (or give jobs back to) people. I’m pretty sure she could still sue for damages, and criminal prosecution for retaliation is still legal.


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