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1 Curt  Mon, Feb 6, 2012 9:52:53am

Military preparedness is just like the fire fighter and EMT sitting in the fire house down the street all night long. People like to complain how "it's a waste of money" right up until they have a fire at their house at 2:31AM, and after they and their family are safe, they have a new appreciation for that "waste of money."

But at another level, keeping the supply lockers full of weapons, ammunition and consumables is hard to do, when you shut down supplier's contracts... because you don't need it "right now." Getting a contract for big stuff is usually at least a 6 month process....not for the signing/awarding, but the the lead time to have things actually arrive at the points where they are needed.

2 Charleston Chew  Mon, Feb 6, 2012 9:56:14am

The article credits Gordon England with being in the Navy but deliberately neglects to mention his long career at the companies that sell stuff to the Pentagon. He's worked at Honeywell, Litton Industries and General Dynamics, but if the article mentioned that you'd immediately see it for what it was - a sales pitch.

So the guy who makes his money by selling stuff to the Pentagon wants the Pentagon to buy more stuff. This guy is the perfect example of the corrupt revolving door system that allows people to move back and forth between the government and the companies that sell it billions of dollars of stuff. The title of this article should be, "Ronald McDonald Sez: Eat More Cheeseburgers!"

Even without the obvious influence peddling, the underlying age-old Republican strategic argument of more = better is bs. "If only the Navy had more submarines they could have stopped the terrorists armed only with boxcutters on 9/11!" Same old dead-from-the-neck-up Republican defense strategy. They're wrong on defense the same way they're wrong domestically: they think the solution to being stupid is to buy a bigger gun. When will they learn that an idiot with a big gun is still an idiot.

3 Charleston Chew  Mon, Feb 6, 2012 10:00:24am

re: #1 Curt

Military preparedness is just like the fire fighter and EMT sitting in the fire house down the street all night long. People like to complain how "it's a waste of money" right up until they have a fire at their house at 2:31AM, and after they and their family are safe, they have a new appreciation for that "waste of money."

These people are called Republicans:

Texas cut fire department funding by 75 percent this year

U.S. Senate Republicans nix bill to hire teachers, firemen and EMTs

4 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Feb 6, 2012 11:11:45am

re: #2 Charleston Chew

The reality is far less partisan, more wonky and circumstantial. The two parties rhetoric rarely matches reality.

[Link: www.epsusa.org...]

5 Curt  Mon, Feb 6, 2012 11:22:23am

re: #2 Charleston Chew

The article credits Gordon England with being in the Navy but deliberately neglects to mention his long career at the companies that sell stuff to the Pentagon. He's worked at Honeywell, Litton Industries and General Dynamics, but if the article mentioned that you'd immediately see it for what it was - a sales pitch.
[...]

I was one of those who had to lived at the other end of the pipeline of stuff being sold to the military. Sometimes, we had to work around shortages, but after I retired, it got worse for the ships and it persists today. You either want to fund the military or you don't. If you pick to fund it you have to do one of two things: Create a massive governmental set of factories manned by government employees, or you buy from contractors....some one, any one, but a contractor.

If someone worked for a company that sold stuff to the government and then became an appointed official, or an elected one, speaks their mind, does that mean the message is invalid, or the messenger's past determines if it's validity or not? If you take the second case, then in all administrations, we need to ignore all kinds of people, and those in Congress, too, who have ties to, or hold stock in, or make any money, directly, or indirectly, from Government contracts, or any type, not just military. Sadly, the "people at the top" have had lives and are where they are, in many cases, because they have experience in industry, which then is used in the public sector.

As for your assertion in two cases, does that mean we shouldn't be serious about a Constitutionally mandated requirement of the Federal Government? You can toss up a bunch of links about how localities are suffering by the Feds not doing what isn't even required, and I'm not budging. The US Military has a specific purpose, and need for the Nation, and once more: Is mandated at the Federal level.

As far as EMTs and teachers and firefighters, that is not a "provide for the National Defense" issue, and is rightfully in the purview of local authorities. Given the Federal Government has made sure it's responsible for taking in Federal money, to skim off the management overhead costs, just to return it to States actually flies in the face of the "cut out the middle man" mentality we are striving for to get out of this mess. How much money could we recoup there, not paying the IRS and Treasury to bring it from the States, to give it back to them?

Then, step back and look at the Monday Morning QBing after 9/11: "Why we're they ready?" You can tag that straight to the Clinton years of cut backs, which caused lots of billions to have to have been funded all of a sudden, which becomes an entirely exciting discussion on Federal budget (or non-budgets for the past 3 years and counting)

The point is: We need to keep a readiness for the defense of the Nation. If it's at the profit of someone you don't like....is there any less reason to do it? How we will do it is in the discussion....and his point is one worth considering, like all the others.

[...]
Same old dead-from-the-neck-up Republican defense strategy. They're wrong on defense the same way they're wrong domestically: they think the solution to being stupid is to buy a bigger gun. When will they learn that an idiot with a big gun is still an idiot.
[...]

What's your plan? Heard of China? How about Russia? How about North Korea? Iran? The Chinese have way more Naval capability than coastal defense, and building more. Russia is renewing (although it looks shaky for them). Those will be issues with the bad guys with bigger guns...like anti ship ballistic missiles...oh, fun. Let's buy some cheap 9mm pistols for the Navy to engage them with as they fall vertically on the CVN decks form out in space.

And I resent your assertion that people in our armed services manning weapons are idiots.

6 Charleston Chew  Mon, Feb 6, 2012 12:18:09pm

re: #5 Curt

You either want to fund the military or you don't.

Isn't there some amount of funding between 0 dollars and infinity dollars? Would you buy a car from a salesman who, when asked how much the car cost, replied, "Hey, either you want to buy the car or you don't."?

If you pick to fund it you have to do one of two things: Create a massive governmental set of factories manned by government employees, or you buy from contractors...some one, any one, but a contractor.

There's nothing wrong with buying things from non-government owned companies. I get all my stuff from them. Literally. But that doesn't mean I think I need to buy a new computer because HP says I do. That doesn't mean I think I need to buy a new car because Honda says I do. The fact that they sell these things makes me all the more skeptical about their advice that I need to buy them.

If someone worked for a company that sold stuff to the government and then became an appointed official, or an elected one, speaks their mind, does that mean the message is invalid, or the messenger's past determines if it's validity or not?

The messenger's past is a key factor in one's assessment of the message's validity. It reminds me of the running gag in Charles Shulz's Peanuts comic where Lucy inevitably tricks Charlie Brown into attempting to kick the football one more time no matter how many times she tricked him in the past. Charlie never learns to factor Lucy's past into the assessment of whether he can trust her or not.

Image: i041010peanuts.jpg

The links I posted were just meant as real life examples of your hypothetical "people who like to complain how 'it's a waste of money'" to fund fire fighters and EMTs.

And I resent your assertion that people in our armed services manning weapons are idiots.

I was speaking metaphorically about national defense strategy, anthropomorphizing the very abstract sum total of ideas about of how the nation as a whole goes about defending itself. I wasn't referring to any actual people. It was poorly written. Sorry about the confusion.


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