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1 Joanne  Tue, Feb 7, 2012 7:04:59pm

Count me as one of them. Lost my job, now working for myself, rejected by BCBS for preexisting conditions, and can't get state insurance until I have no insurance for six months. At this point, I won't even go to a doctor because I can't afford to do anything about whatever pops up, so I try to deal with everything over the counter. But you can't. Our insurance system is insane. And there's nothing I can do about it. I can't fire my insurance carrier, they fired me.

2 Sinistershade  Tue, Feb 7, 2012 8:38:10pm

May I take this opportunity to throw in yet another plug for a single-payer system?

3 Bob Dillon  Tue, Feb 7, 2012 8:43:54pm

re: #1 JustJay

Check out your local Rotary Club. They sponsor free clinics for everyone, anyone, any status and some provide free Rx.

4 Bob Dillon  Tue, Feb 7, 2012 8:47:21pm

re: #2 Sinistershade

You may. Just keep in mind that single payer = tax payer ... along with the layers of bureaucracy and fraud that will continue to suck up resources and leave the patient wanting.

5 nines09  Tue, Feb 7, 2012 8:53:27pm

re: #1 JustJay

Welcome to the Wonderful World Of "Keep Your Hands Off My Health care". You are a burned down house as far as Huckabee is concerned. Ask why you cannot go across state lines and pick up a better rate in Nevada for instance? How come no Co-Opting? How come no competition from outside insurers? How come? What Mike Huckster does not tell you and you know, is when the money runs out and they bleed you stupid, then you get insurance. As long as you are poor enough. You can do everything right and still get fucked right in the neck as our system is set up. And by the way? They put a lien on everything. So. Live right. Save 400K. Lose a job. Cobra runs out. Buy shit policy with no coverage for your real problem. Get sick from real problem. Kiss it all bye bye. Do you know what you are? A drain on society. A stain. A net loss. I love it when they put these scenarios in front of the talking heads; "Billy never bought insurance. He got sick. What do we do?" "LET HIM DIE. How about.."Billy tried to buy insurance. They would not let him. Pre existing conditions made him look like a burned down Mike Huckabee house. What do we do?" That is the question the SCOTUS needs to answer. Those who wish to try and cover themselves for all the right reasons.... AND WANT TO GO BACK TO WORK.

6 Bob Dillon  Tue, Feb 7, 2012 8:53:39pm

re: #1 JustJay

Walmart and McDonalds are hiring. They have group plans where no one may be excluded for pre-existing conditions.

7 nines09  Tue, Feb 7, 2012 9:01:26pm

re: #6 Bob Dillon

I looked at quite a number of minimum wage group "plans". Basicly they said "we drive you to the hospital. After that you are on your own." Deductible is a joke. Show me otherwise. ADR.

8 Bob Dillon  Tue, Feb 7, 2012 9:07:14pm

Look. If you want to play the game of "individual" ya gots to anty up and get in the game before you break something. And yes it is expensive. You don't want to pay the freight to play at that level? - go to work for someone with a large group and continue to do so. If you f*ck up by not paying attention to what is going on and loose your coverage - the tax payers should pick it up? BS. I have sold health ins to mostly self employed for over 20 years - I think that I can count on my fingers not using both hands the number of times I could not get someone coverage. Find a good agent!.

9 Bob Dillon  Tue, Feb 7, 2012 9:12:14pm

re: #7 Repeatedly Dropped On My Head As A Child

Lookin' for love in all the wrong places. Find a good agent. Use a professional! You may be good at what you do for a living but a licensed, informed agent you are not.

10 Sinistershade  Tue, Feb 7, 2012 9:30:31pm

re: #4 Bob Dillon

You may. Just keep in mind that single payer = tax payer ... along with the layers of bureaucracy and fraud that will continue to suck up resources and leave the patient wanting.

It's certainly possible. But Medicare beats any for-profit insurer in terms of percentage of dollars going to patient care. And the best, lowest-hassle insurance I ever had was a year I spent on Medicaid. (Actually it was my pregnant wife on Medicaid while I was out of work.)

11 Bob Dillon  Tue, Feb 7, 2012 9:44:31pm

re: #10 Sinistershade

I have been on forced Medicare for ~5 years now. At times it seems great but if some part of you craps out ... as our parts eventually will ... it is WW III with the local carrier to get even some Rx approved let alone treatment. RE: "percentage of dollars going to patient care" Fraud and abuse % is over the top in $ spent for pt care. I lectured nationwide on Medicare Compliance/Fraud & Abuse before I semi-retired as an Ins Co. V.P. If you don't know an ICD-9 from a CPT-4, you are not qualified to argue. ;-)

12 freetoken  Tue, Feb 7, 2012 10:08:34pm

Several big picture issues involved here. It is touching to read individual stories, but the tough spot is getting the society as a whole, through the mechanism of government, to change the way we live.

As we demand more and more medical services and advanced technologies we have to admit something so far few of our public figures are willing to do, including President Obama - that "healthcare" will become a larger and larger share of our national GDP regardless of financing specifics.

Indeed, I think it was wrong for Obama to concentrate so much of his selling of the healthcare act on the idea of saving money.

13 nines09  Tue, Feb 7, 2012 10:11:17pm

re: #9 Bob Dillon

Each state mandates what they cover and not. Am I correct so far? So as long as I being a employed person with a company policy, I'm good to go. If I lose my job and run Cobra out and allow my insurance to lapse I now face a menu of not much for a boatload. This is in Pennsylvania. I could buy in Texas for sake of argument but the law prohibits me. Am I wrong yet? But if I pay to the end of Cobra, buy insurance, the best I could do with a family of three in Pennsylvania with something even remotely resembling a viable plan was 13.5 thousand a year with me paying out the ass for deductible and little to no preventive/screening and the fact that I have a history of "potential" heart issues takes that out of the coverage.. I am out of luck. So is my wife with high blood pressure. Am I missing something? I feel like a burned down house. It is broke and it is not pretty.

14 Bob Levin  Tue, Feb 7, 2012 10:32:58pm

I think everyone is agreeing on the problem, although I hear Bob Dillon saying that the problem goes beyond the individual hardships--which at the moment can only be handled, even in the best of circumstances, by a corrupt and inefficient system.

Most unfortunately, the corrupt and inefficient system has the monopoly regarding financing.

So, Robert, what's the way out of this?

15 researchok  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 1:39:41am

If you think health care is expensive now, just wait till it's 'free'.

16 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 2:03:31am

re: #15 researchok

If you think health care is expensive now, just wait till it's 'free'.

Why? What mechanism in single-payer health care would increase costs, and why would it be different from every other single-payer health care country, where costs are below ours?

17 Bob Dillon  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 5:27:01am

re: #13 Repeatedly Dropped On My Head As A Child

Not knowing your individual health issues - which are confidential under HIPPA - and what the rules are in Penn. I have no specific answers for you. However I have gotten life and health policies issued for folks with "heart" issues covered. Did they jump thru hoops? Yeppers! Do they have full coverage - some yes, some limited. Your wife would be advised to to learn to meditate with a technique that has been scientifically validated to reduce blood pressure [Link: www.doctorsontm.org...] Qigong, Hatha Yoga and/or Tai Chi have been shown to have some BP benefits as well. It would be good to find an agent that is willing to take you under their wing and shepherd you thru this as this falls into the "don't try this at home" category. If you don't know the ins and outs of the process - you are lost and will fail. You may think you know the health care system but in reality you haven't a clue other than political rhetoric.

18 Bob Dillon  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 5:49:27am

re: #14 Bob Levin

So, Robert, what's the way out of this?

Above my pay grade. However ...

Collectively I think this has become so political its like the USPS - its broke but we are stuck with it. IMNSHO I think things started downhill when LBJ rammed thru his "Great Society" without planning ahead - we are now at the "ahead" and paying for LBJs egomania.

Individually - there is hope. Start early in doing what you can to maintain and improve your health - the answers are out there but its not via our broken food industry the AMA or big Pharma. Get a well seasoned independent professional to advise you in insuring against losses before they happen. If you are not willing to pay the premium that will afford you and your family the protection from risks in life but you choose to play at an elevated level then you are a leach on society by expecting everyone else to pick up your self imposed mess when the SHTF.

For those who need help and have issues they can't afford there are service organizations such as Rotary, as I mentioned before, who have volunteer docs and nurses who run clinics weekly, usually at a public school, pay for your Rx and provide funds for X-rays, MRIs, etc. Help is out there for those will to do a little research, contact the local JCC, etc. and most of all take charge of your own health starting with what you eat and drink and walk at least 1/2 hour a day.

19 dragonfire1981  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 5:51:07am

re: #15 researchok

If you think health care is expensive now, just wait till it's 'free'.

This is a commonly repeated talking point, but I'm sorry I don't buy it.

I speak as someone who has spent the majority of my life under a single payer system (Canada). Yes, we do pay a little more in taxes, but it's not like we get no return on investment. I would say the higher taxes (which are not backbreaking by any stretch of the imagination) are worth the improvement in quality of life.

Example: My mother can get a cochlear implant inserted (cost $20 000) with no out of pocket cost to her whatsoever. A lot of Americans can't even comprehend such a thing. If my mother lived in this country, she'd never get that implant unless we won the lottery or something.

I can't really tell you how nice it is to be able to see a doctor or go to an ER and NOT have to worry about how much it will cost you.

When I was an uninsured college student, I started experiencing upper chest pains one day. Scared, I went to the ER. After an exam, EKG and chest x-ray they determined the issue was not Cardiac, but muscular in nature and was not serious.

Net cost to me for that visit? Zero dollars.

Now I know it wasn't actually "free" per se, but it was still nice to not be saddled with a multi-thousand dollar bill after it was over with.

No health care system is perfect, but consider this: The United States spends MORE money per capita on health care than any other nation in the world INCLUDING all those countries that have single payer!

I can't possibly imagine that single payer would make our health care system any worse and costly than it is now.

Personally, I favor a hybrid system. That is to say, single payer along with private insurance available for those who want to go that route.

20 Bob Dillon  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 5:57:37am

re: #13 Repeatedly Dropped On My Head As A Child

"If I lose my job and run Cobra out and allow my insurance to lapse"

Rule one. Never allow your insurance to lapse. You had 18 months on COBRA to find an alternative. Did you procrastinate?

If your chosen work industry has unstable employment - your chosen career research was not well done or sufficiently focused.

Sounds like you may have created your own problem. If so, who is responsible?

21 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:06:07am

re: #20 Bob Dillon

Why is laying blame important? Isn't solving the problem important?

The problem is that the free market deals very badly with health insurance, since the ideal market of a health insurance company is a perfectly healthy person. Inefficiency in payouts is rewarded, most insurers operate in very static markets with little room for competition given the amount of money it takes for buy-in. There is no logic at all to having health insurance be private; it is not something that benefits from profit-seeking.

22 Bob Dillon  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 1:33:33pm

re: #21 Obdicut

Its all about choices. We can choose to procrastinate. We can make poor choices. What are the solutions to those and others? Where does responsibility and accountability come in for you?


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