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1 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 23, 2012 1:59:55pm

God damn it. What an insane thing to shed blood over. What a stupid mistake to make. What a gigantic gulf there is between us and them.

2 Timmeh  Thu, Feb 23, 2012 2:49:53pm

The Muslims desecrate and burn our flag every day. We don't like it but we know it's just a piece of cloth at the end of the day and it's not worth getting upset over.

The Quran is just paper, leather, ink and glue at the end of the day, and its not worth getting upset over. Muslims really need to grow a thicker skin. I never hear about Christians rioting because someone did something to a Bible.

3 Tigger2005  Thu, Feb 23, 2012 2:58:08pm

All I can say is, let them go nuts and stay out of the way. Even the Muhammad cartoon protests eventually burned out.

4 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 23, 2012 3:34:58pm

re: #2 Timmeh

Well, this fight happened for even less reason:

And this was back in the 1840s, but it happened.

[Link: www.aoh61.com...]

5 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 23, 2012 4:56:20pm

re: #2 Timmeh

The Muslims desecrate and burn our flag every day. We don't like it but we know it's just a piece of cloth at the end of the day and it's not worth getting upset over.

The Quran is just paper, leather, ink and glue at the end of the day, and its not worth getting upset over. Muslims really need to grow a thicker skin.

There's that broad brush again. There are approximately 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, the vast majority of whom are NOT rioting over this stuff or burning flags.

I would also point out that we have no way of knowing what is being told to the Afghans about this story and whether there may be one (or more) instigators whipping people into a frenzy for their own purposes, as was reported to have happened last year:

Protests Over Koran Burning Reach Kandahar
[...] Both Afghan and international news media had initially played down or ignored the actions of Mr. Jones, the Florida pastor. On Thursday, however, President Karzai made a speech and issued statements condemning the Koran burning and calling for the arrest of Mr. Jones for his actions. On Friday, that theme was picked up in mosques throughout Afghanistan.

“Karzai brought this issue back to life, and he has to take some responsibility for starting this up,” said a prominent Afghan businessman, who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of retribution if he was identified as a critic of the president.

“Karzai’s speech itself provoked people to take such actions,” said Qayum Baabak, a political analyst in Mazar-i-Sharif. “Karzai should have called on people to be patient rather than making people more angry.”

Officials in Mazar-i-Sharif also blamed Taliban agitators from other provinces for stirring up violence in the protests there. [...]

Instigation and rioting on both sides has also been responsible for the deaths of hundreds in Nigeria: Nigeria election riots: How leaders stoke Muslim-Christian violence

Then there are the ongoing Hindu-Sikh-Muslim flare-ups in India...

6 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 23, 2012 4:57:04pm

re: #2 Timmeh

I never hear about Christians rioting because someone did something to a Bible.

Perhaps not riots, but a quick Google search provided the following:

United States, 2011 - A woman attacked a painting because she felt that "that Gauguin is evil. He has nudity and is bad for the children. He has two women in the painting and it’s very homosex­ual." Granted, she seems to be mentally unstable, but still: Gauguin masterpiece unharmed after attack at National Gallery

France, 2011 - Museum guards threatened & attacked and two pieces of art damaged by assailants: Attackers in French museum damage controversial 'Piss Christ' photo

United States, 2010 - After a week of a controversial art exhibit being picketed, a woman attacks & destroys art which depicts a man who resembles Jesus Christ receiving oral sex: Art professor’s exhibit attacked

France, 1988 - A movie theater showing The Last Temptation of Christ is gutted by fire: Religious War Ignites Anew in France

7 Timmeh  Thu, Feb 23, 2012 5:50:40pm

re: #5 CuriousLurker

Yeah, I understand it's not all Muslims, but I have a real problem with countries that make blasphemy illegal like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

[Link: www.globalpost.com...]

[Link: www.torontosun.com...]

As far as the Piss Christ thing and the other "art" that Christians consider blasphemous goes, just imagine the reaction if Mohammed were substituted for Jesus in those "art" works. I would expect much more serious and large scale international repercussions than just a few people trying to destroy the object itself. The artists would have to go into hiding and I would expect riots all over the world. Just look at what happened with the Mohammed cartoons and multiply that by 100.

8 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 23, 2012 6:59:03pm

re: #7 Timmeh

Yeah, I understand it's not all Muslims, but I have a real problem with countries that make blasphemy illegal like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

[Link: www.globalpost.com...]

[Link: www.torontosun.com...]

Yeah, I'm familiar with the ones in the Muslim countries. Brazil, Greece, Ireland, Israel, Malta, etc. also have blasphemy laws, but AFAIK they're only punishable by fines or imprisonment, not death.

As far as the Piss Christ thing and the other "art" that Christians consider blasphemous goes, just imagine the reaction if Mohammed were substituted for Jesus in those "art" works. I would expect much more serious and large scale international repercussions than just a few people trying to destroy the object itself. The artists would have to go into hiding and I would expect riots all over the world. Just look at what happened with the Mohammed cartoons and multiply that by 100.

I wasn't disputing the fact that the reaction is much worse and on a larger scale in many Muslim countries, I just wanted to point out that it exists in the West as well.

The current Islamic year is 1433, so let's hope that it won't take another 100 years for reformation to begin (Martin Luther, 1517), or another 200 years for an Islamic Age of Enlightenment (Europe, circa 1650–1700) to begin. ;)

Make me wonder how things would've turned out in Europe if they'd had cell phones, email, the internet, jet travel, etc. back then...

9 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Feb 23, 2012 8:58:49pm

If only we were more sensitive.

10 CuriousLurker  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:42:27am

re: #9 Eclectic Infidel

If only we were more sensitive.

Or at least consistent.


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Never stop and keep going -- Giving advice to young musicians. early 80's interview with pennsylvania state police officer whom is also a zappa fan. originally to be shown to local high school students of the area but frank ended up on the subject of politics and you can just imagine why the kids never seen this video.