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1 aagcobb  Mon, Mar 5, 2012 3:12:37pm

I don’t recall that any judges traveled with Union armies to conduct trials before they could fire on Confederate soldiers. If American citizens who have plotted terror attacks on Americans want a trial, they can damn well turn themselves in rather than hiding in some terrorist stronghold.

2 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Mar 5, 2012 7:03:35pm

re: #1 Weareallslutsnow

Exactly. I can approve of this.

3 BishopX  Mon, Mar 5, 2012 7:11:57pm

re: #1 Weareallslutsnow

The issue is that confederates a)were not executed for being confederates and b) were generally unambiguously engaged in armed conflict with the US. Neither of these things is true in the current situation. The US government is executing american citizens because it thinks they’re enemies of the state. There is no judicial review of these executive decisions which rely entirely on secret evidence, whose veracity we can’t confirm.

The whole program stinks to the high heavens.

4 John Vreeland  Mon, Mar 5, 2012 7:19:53pm

re: #3 BishopX

In these cases so far there is probably little doubt that the targets are effectively soldiers actively fighting against us. The problem is that eventually someone will be targeted who is not so clearly an “active terrorist,” though the people pushing the buttons may think so…and usually are the first to think so. There needs to be some oversight on the process of making that decision.

5 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 5, 2012 8:02:33pm

re: #4 John Vreeland

In these cases so far there is probably little doubt that the targets are effectively soldiers actively fighting against us. The problem is that eventually someone will be targeted who is not so clearly an “active terrorist,” though the people pushing the buttons may think so…and usually are the first to think so. There needs to be some oversight on the process of making that decision.

“Not an active terrorist”? What is your definition of that? Must be within 6 feet of one who is active?//

“Needs to be oversight”. OK, conscript judges to sit in on the CIA evaluation panels full time (or else they couldn’t make a proper judgement). Oops, that makes them CIA. Quick, get some more judges to sit in on them… Oops, it’s judges all the way down./

6 alinuxguru  Mon, Mar 5, 2012 8:14:06pm

re: #3 BishopX

were generally unambiguously engaged in armed conflict with the US.

The secondary explosions in the compound that al Awlaki was holed up in with his terrorist buddies seems to indicate that he was terrorism adjacent.

7 aagcobb  Mon, Mar 5, 2012 8:29:42pm

re: #3 BishopX

The issue is that confederates a)were not executed for being confederates and b) were generally unambiguously engaged in armed conflict with the US. Neither of these things is true in the current situation. The US government is executing american citizens because it thinks they’re enemies of the state. There is no judicial review of these executive decisions which rely entirely on secret evidence, whose veracity we can’t confirm.

The whole program stinks to the high heavens.

So al Awlaki, by virtue of being an American citizen, should be free to plan attacks against the U.S. which would earn him a drone strike otherwise?

8 BishopX  Tue, Mar 6, 2012 4:18:35am

re: #6 alinuxguru

1) explosions in Yemen have very little bearing on ones war with American (as opposed to the Yemeni government).

2) The fact that you confirmed it was right to kill some after they’re dead doesn’t mean you were justified in killing them.

9 BishopX  Tue, Mar 6, 2012 4:24:42am

re: #7 Weareallslutsnow

Personally, the whole concept of treating conflict with terrorist groups as a war whose conflict area spans the entire globe stinks. The fact that the US is assassinating private citizens of multiple countries in multiple countries without any clear justification or transparent process beyond “we know he’s a terrorist and we’re very careful” is immensely problematic, because a)sometime we fuck it up and b)we give every other country on the globe the authority to act like we do, namely by violating the rules of war (since the term doesn’t really fit what we’re doing) and violating the sovereignty of third party countries in order to carry out targeted killings.

10 alinuxguru  Tue, Mar 6, 2012 4:46:21am

re: #8 BishopX

1) explosions in Yemen have very little bearing on ones war with American (as opposed to the Yemeni government).

This comment does not make any sense. The Yemeni government approved the use of drones rather than risk a deadly siege and/or walk into a booby trapped combat area. The Yemenis were well within their right to put the life of their own men over the lives of die hard, affirmed terrorists.

2) The fact that you confirmed it was right to kill some after they’re dead doesn’t mean you were justified in killing them.

Perhaps not. Then again, the other facts in the al Awlaki case certainly do. al Awlaki was a wanted fugitive, fleeing and eludiing his lawful arrest. If he wanted to retain his rights, he should have turned himself in, rather than cuddle up with armed terrorists.


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