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1 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:58:43am

Oh noes. The atheists have the audacity to promote a secular world and now they're evangelical? Uh, no.

2 EiMitch  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 11:01:25am
Apparently, atheists within the Muslim communities are quite plentiful, as evidenced by the emails they receive and the number of former Muslims now in the American Atheists’ ranks.

And that is why such a seemingly dickish move, isn't dickish at all. Sure, alot of people are offended. But alot of people who felt alone now aren't quite so alone anymore. You tell me which one you think is more important.

Its not like us nonbelievers have our own synagogs, churches, mosques, temples, or whatnot to gather once a week. We have to put more effort into getting together.

For anyone who doesn't see it that way, I ask that you try to imagine if the situation was the opposite. If atheism was normal, and religious people were the minority, wouldn't the faithful keep their beliefs quiet to avoid offending family, friends, and neighbors? Wouldn't public billboards and other high-profile measures be necessary for believers to reach out to each other?

Having said all of this, I'm glad that the offended muslims agreed to respect the free-speech rights of American Atheists. I shudder to think of how many christians holding office these days don't have such tolerance.

3 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 11:04:29am

They put up similar billboards in NY Jewish neighborhoods. I'm like all...meh.

4 Flavia  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 11:18:40am

The same guy got all huffy when a Jewish guy decided against renting him space for the sign, saying that it was "censorship." (rolling eyes).

5 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 11:27:54am

Reposted from the thread where we had a little discussion on this...
I think the line "You know it's a myth" might be offensive to the faithful. I sometimes wonder with evangelism how much the need to "spread the word" reflects an inner insecurity. It's a slightly negative ad, a positive angle of pro science might be more welcome. Might actually work better.

6 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 11:48:01am

The billboard in question is two blocks from an Islamic center, and can be seen from there. The executive director of the Islamic center had this to say...
(@~ the 00:30 mark)

7 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 11:50:33am

re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

The executive director of the Islamic center had this to say...

Seems like a great guy.

8 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 11:56:25am

re: #7 Martryr Cookie Monster

I think he had a very reasonable response to something that really shouldn't be considered "controversial", "questionable", or "outrageous".

9 What, me worry?  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 12:12:19pm

re: #2 EiMitch

And that is why such a seemingly dickish move, isn't dickish at all. Sure, alot of people are offended. But alot of people who felt alone now aren't quite so alone anymore. You tell me which one you think is more important.

Its not like us nonbelievers have our own synagogs, churches, mosques, temples, or whatnot to gather once a week. We have to put more effort into getting together.

For anyone who doesn't see it that way, I ask that you try to imagine if the situation was the opposite. If atheism was normal, and religious people were the minority, wouldn't the faithful keep their beliefs quiet to avoid offending family, friends, and neighbors? Wouldn't public billboards and other high-profile measures be necessary for believers to reach out to each other?

Having said all of this, I'm glad that the offended muslims agreed to respect the free-speech rights of American Atheists. I shudder to think of how many christians holding office these days don't have such tolerance.

I think ya'll need your own church. :)

Gd bless the atheists! (Ok, that's my little atheist joke there.) Let them have their billboard. Let it bring in discussion as the Imam said. We should all welcome it. Or is the faith of us believers so fragile that we can't stand a little scrutiny?

Let's save the outrage for the important stuff like wars, joblessness, homelessness, racism, etc.

10 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 1:50:03pm

Unnecessary provocation, designed not so much to get a message through but rather to draw attention to themselves.

Tasteless- at best.

11 lawhawk  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 2:44:25pm

The group that put these billboards up has not quite gotten the reaction they hoped for. The group's intent to post the billboard in Williamsburg, home to a significant Hasidic Jewish community, hit a snag when they tried to access the billboard:

"We believe that (these) communities are teeming with atheists due to the emails we regularly receive," said American Atheists President Dave Silverman, a nonprofit that seeks civil rights for non-believers and absolute separation of church and state. "We have received a dozen emails from Hasidic Atheist Jews since we announced the billboards. … They feel totally alone. We want to tell them they are not alone."

Silverman was at the site with the advertising company to erect the giant sign atop a residential building.

But landlord Kenny Stier refused to allow workers from the advertising company Clear Channel into the building, said Silverman. He told The Brooklyn Paper that he believes powerful rabbis in the largely ultra-Orthodox Hasidic Jewish area persuaded Stier to block the billboard.

"It has been very disconcerting to see that the traditional victims of religious bigotry have become the purveyors of religious bigotry," said Silverman, who was raised in the Jewish faith.

Stier could not immediately be reach for comment, but The Brooklyn Paper quoted him as saying, "I don’t want to get involved in this."

Williamsburg Rabbi David Niederman told the paper the sign is "a disgrace. ... The name of god is very holy to us and to the whole world."

Curious that Silverman doesn't see the problem with his own bigotry in using G-d's name in pursuit of his own atheist agenda and offending the religious Jewish community in Williamsburg.

But for most people, it's just more clutter in the background and not changing anyone's views.

12 CuriousLurker  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 2:59:28pm

From the video SB posted:

...but we do reserve the right to advertise to atheists as we see fit.

Huh? I thought atheists already believed God was a myth. Why would they need to advertise that to other atheists in Arabic with a reference to "Allah"?

Meh, whatever. *shrugs* There' s a short chapter towards the end of the Qur'an addressed to disbelievers which basically states the obvious twice (I'm paraphrasing here): I don't believe what you believe, nor do you believe what I believe. I'm not going to believe what you believe, nor are you going to believe what I believe. To you your way, and to me mine.

There's no need for hysteria or outrage. It's more like, "Yeah, okay, I'm a believer and you're not—to each his own. Are we done now? Kthxbai."

13 What, me worry?  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:02:20pm

re: #11 lawhawk

I thought it was the Satmars who lived in Williamsburg, or are there other sects of Orthodox? The Satmars are crazy anti-Zionists. It comes as no shock that they wouldn't allow such a billboard.

Silverman's statement was cruel and meant to provoke. I support the atheists if what they want is dialog, but that he deliberately poked even the crazy Satmars in the eye, then I have to wonder.

14 What, me worry?  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:06:47pm

re: #12 CuriousLurker

Come to think of it, wanting dialog is kinda silly. What's that gonna look like?

I still support the billboard. Why not. This is America, after all. Home of the free, the brave and the heathens. LOL

15 CuriousLurker  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:21:03pm

re: #14 Everybody Look at Your Hands

The whole approach gives lie to any notion that dialog is desired. If it was, the approach would be more like the one Daniel mentioned in his #5 above.

To me this is more about trying to belittle others' beliefs. It's reminiscent of some Christians who attempt to convert people by explaining to them why their religion is wrong/false and Christianity is right. Because, y'know, they're just telling you for your own good.

But like I said, meh, whatever. Go ahead and keep throwing your $$ at it.

16 CuriousLurker  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:34:35pm

re: #11 lawhawk

"We have received a dozen emails from Hasidic Atheist Jews since we announced the billboards. … They feel totally alone. We want to tell them they are not alone."

Ah, I see. So it's the poor, lonely Hasidic Atheist Jews, Muslims, and Christians he's trying to provide succor to. Isn't that what Pam says about her bus ads? Oh, look, it sure is (added emphasis mine):

"It's not offensive to Muslims, it's religious freedom," she said. "It's not targeted at practicing Muslims. It doesn't say 'leave,' it says 'leaving' with a question mark."

See? She's not addressing practicing Muslims, she's addressing all those poor, lonely Muslims who already have doubts. It's a humanitarian effort. //

17 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:38:46pm

NEWSFLASH! When people believe their worldview (whether religious or not) is better supported by facts than others, and/or would be better for them in other ways as well, they have a tendency to promote it.

There's a long established history for doing this on behalf of religious world views and we see examples of it all around us on a daily basis. (And this is true even in the supposedly irreligious UK). But when atheists do it, why ain't that just stinky of them! Why can't they just be like no-one else and shut up?

18 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:58:46pm

re: #10 researchok

Unnecessary provocation, designed not so much to get a message through but rather to draw attention to themselves.

Tasteless- at best.

If you want tasteless, try addressing the Southern Baptist convention's attempts to convert Jews here in the U.S.

19 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 4:58:30pm

Boo!

20 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 5:04:59pm

re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

The billboard in question is two blocks from an Islamic center, and can be seen from there. The executive director of the Islamic center had this to say...
(@~ the 00:30 mark)

[Embedded content]

That was unexpected. Good to hear.

21 CuriousLurker  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 5:21:23pm

re: #20 Gus

That was unexpected. Good to hear.

Yeah, a rational, non-fundie Muslim. Who could've guessed? //

Sarc aside, there are tons of Muslims in Patterson, so I'm sure a reporter will dig up an angry fundie as an example of Muslim "man on the street" sentiment soon enough.

22 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 5:27:29pm

re: #21 CuriousLurker

Yeah, a rational, non-fundie Muslim. Who could've guessed? //

Sarc aside, there are tons of Muslims in Patterson, so I'm sure a reporter will dig up an angry fundie as an example of Muslim "man on the street" sentiment soon enough.

Given the proximity I was expecting some kind of objection. I'm really glad though because you know I'm always going to bat for Muslims. :) I think his response was great. Opens up new channels for dialogue and such. Even if people argue once we're done we have to eat. :)

23 CuriousLurker  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 5:34:29pm

re: #22 Gus

Given the proximity I was expecting some kind of objection.

To be perfectly honest, I was kinda holding my breath when I first clicked on this page too, heh. Not so much because I don't think Muslims can react with equanimity, but because the worst fundie examples are usually held up as being the "real" sentiment.

I'm really glad though because you know I'm always going to bat for Muslims. :) I think his response was great. Opens up new channels for dialogue and such. Even if people argue once we're done we have to eat. :)

I know you do, and I appreciate it. ;) Indeed we do have to eat. Speaking of, they sell some awesome Syrian beef sausage in Paterson. It's got all kinds of yummy spices and there are pine nuts mixed in the filling. Nom, nom...oh no, NOT gonna start with the food again! ;o)

24 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 6:14:11pm

re: #18 Eclectic Infidel

Same thing.


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