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1 calochortus  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:37:55am

This should be required reading for all.
People need to realize that markets may or may not work perfectly, but they are extremely complex. Changing one variable may not give the desired results.
Corollary: There are few simple solutions without unintended consequences.

2 Buck  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:50:37am

Can we agree that more domestic drilling would bring more domestic jobs?
Can we agree that many of those jobs would be high paying jobs?
Can we agree that using domestic energy sources would be better for the economy than the trade deficits of imported energy?
Can we agree that domestic energy resource jobs cannot be "sent overseas" easily, like so many factory jobs are?

Can we agree that it is the better choice to use and pay for energy from North American sources rather than from dictatorships that harm women, gays, Jews and Christians?

3 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:29:07am

re: #2 Buck

Can we agree that Buck is changing the subject?

Can we agree that more domestic drilling would bring more domestic jobs?

Domestic drilling is higher under Obama than under Bush.

Can we agree that many of those jobs would be high paying jobs?

Most of the jobs would be temp construction jobs.

Can we agree that using domestic energy sources would be better for the economy than the trade deficits of imported energy?

Wouldn't matter, actually. See, we have tiny reserves compared to our usage rate.

Can we agree that domestic energy resource jobs cannot be "sent overseas" easily, like so many factory jobs are?

Edit - Totally misread that. Depends. The big oil companies are multinationals. So... Beats me.

Can we agree that it is the better choice to use and pay for energy from North American sources rather than from dictatorships that harm women, gays, Jews and Christians?

Irrelevant. Oil is fungible.

4 Political Atheist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:30:17am

re: #2 Buck

Can we agree that more domestic drilling would bring more domestic jobs?
Can we agree that many of those jobs would be high paying jobs?
Can we agree that using domestic energy sources would be better for the economy than the trade deficits of imported energy?
Can we agree that domestic energy resource jobs cannot be "sent overseas" easily, like so many factory jobs are?

Can we agree that it is the better choice to use and pay for energy from North American sources rather than from dictatorships that harm women, gays, Jews and Christians?

Okay I'll agree. Just as soon as the Romney stops lying about why we need to drill.

5 Buck  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 10:40:42am

There is no doubt that increased production does lower the per barrel price. When Iran dropped their production levels, Saudi Arabia promised to make up the difference and increase their production. (They didn't actually follow through).

Domestic drilling is higher under Obama than under Bush.

Can anyone find the actual numbers? How much did production increase? How many barrels per day in relation to the total of oil consumed? It might be higher by a very small amount.

All I can find is the statement repeated. I assume it is due to the North Dakota production. It has increased domestic production but not by a very large amount (yet).

O

6 Buck  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 10:43:34am

re: #3 Varek Raith

Irrelevant. Oil is fungible.

Maybe it is irrelevant to you. It is very relevant to me. I guess it depends on what your goal is. Mine is to try and not be personally supporting these horrible practices.

7 calochortus  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 10:55:07am

re: #6 Buck

So I assume you use public transportation whenever possible even if it is not terribly convenient, drive a hybrid vehicle, and are working to support alternative energies even if they cost a bit more?

8 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 12:11:41pm

re: #2 Buck

Can we agree that more domestic drilling would bring more domestic jobs?

Not necessarily, no. The jobs may be given to contractors from corporations based outside the US, employing citizens of other countries, and not resident here.

Can we agree that many of those jobs would be high paying jobs?

Sure.

Can we agree that using domestic energy sources would be better for the economy than the trade deficits of imported energy?

No, not really, and it's not going to happen anyway.

Can we agree that domestic energy resource jobs cannot be "sent overseas" easily, like so many factory jobs are?

Nope. They may have to physically be done here, but they hire foreign corporations to do drilling and refinery stuff all the time.

Can we agree that it is the better choice to use and pay for energy from North American sources rather than from dictatorships that harm women, gays, Jews and Christians?

Nope. As we've repeatedly told you, the price of oil is set by the demand for oil, so it doesn't matter where you get it from, the dictatorships will still profit as highly if our consumption of oil is at the same rate.

9 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 12:12:23pm

re: #5 Buck

There is no doubt that increased production does lower the per barrel price.

Yes there is. Demand may simply increase.

10 Buck  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:45:34pm

re: #7 calochortus

So I assume you use public transportation whenever possible even if it is not terribly convenient, drive a hybrid vehicle, and are working to support alternative energies even if they cost a bit more?

Where I live all of the gasoline is from ethical sources.

I would pay more for gasoline if I knew it was ethical.

11 Buck  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:56:59pm

re: #8 Obdicut

You drive me crazy. You make no sense, and you know it. You keep repeating the same stuff even that you know it is not what I am talking about.

Example: I say " better choice to use and pay for energy from North American sources rather than from dictatorships that harm women, gays, Jews and Christians?" And you talk about the dictators profits. I never talked about the profits. I don't care about their profits, and you know that. I am talking about US not being where their support comes from.

Second example: You disagree with the idea that "domestic energy resource jobs cannot be "sent overseas"" and yet then say "They may have to physically be done here". That is what I am talking about.

Again you know this. Anyway, you will now simply repeat what you have said, and ignore the fact that you are replying to what you want to pretend I said.


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