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1 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 1:12:52pm

War criminals should be punished.

2 researchok  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 1:49:22pm

Interesting timing- the announcement of trial of 9/11 mastermind, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed at Guantanamo just yesterday....

Maybe an agenda or payback for something- or he's looking to get his face time on TV

3 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 1:52:41pm

re: #2 researchok

Maybe an agenda or payback for something- or he's looking to get his face time on TV

Not an agenda, not a payback, not face time. If you actually read the article, the explanation is banal: Ackerman's FOIA request has been finally fulfilled.

4 iossarian  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 1:56:12pm

re: #1 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

War criminals should be punished.

Of course. This will be swept under the carpet as "old news" though, same as the trumped-up basis on which the Iraq War was justified.

5 iossarian  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 1:59:13pm

The Bush administration squandered vast amounts of money on fighting a war that had no fact-based justification whatsoever, and ignored any evidence that contradicted their world view on the necessity of that war or indeed on the legality of the measures they used to fight it.

And yet, somehow, only Republicans can be regarded as Very Serious People on matters of foreign policy.

What a bunch of tools.

6 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 2:01:05pm

re: #5 iossarian

The Bush administration squandered vast amounts of money on fighting a war that had no fact-based justification whatsoever, and ignored any evidence that contradicted their world view on the necessity of that war or indeed on the legality of the measures they used to fight it.

And yet, somehow, only Republicans can be regarded as Very Serious People on matters of foreign policy.

What a bunch of tools.

Yes. They're clowns, and those who still believe them are wicked fools.

I understand Obama didn't have much leeway - or desire, for that matter. But not throwing torturers and those who ordered torture in prison is still a mistake.

7 iossarian  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 2:06:02pm

re: #6 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Yes. They're clowns, and those who still believe them are wicked fools.

I understand Obama didn't have much leeway - or desire, for that matter. But not throwing torturers and those who ordered torture in prison is still a mistake.

I have to be careful how I phrase this, otherwise it's tinfoil hat time.

But I do think that Obama and more generally the Democrats in Washington are of the opinion that any such action would lead to such a massive backlash from the Republicans (in the form of political impeachments on even more absurdly trivial grounds, purely for starters) that they don't feel they can do anything here without severely damaging the US political process.

And to be honest, to some extent I agree with that position. As sucky as it is, it may be the better position to take for the promotion of long-term responsible government.

Hate the fact that the bastards got away with it. Oh well, they'll be dead soon.

8 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 2:07:24pm

re: #7 iossarian

It's not tinfoil, it's obvious. And again, I get that it's "better", practically. It doesn't make it less of a wrong choice, even if it's an optimal choice.

9 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 2:51:23pm

Okay did not realize this got featured. My work day has been full, I am suddenly filling in as C.O.O.

with a mind to not rehash Iraq war arguments as they have been so well thrashed over I can hardly figure to say or see anything new there.

Trying to look at this from an above the fray POV-
What we have here is a difference of conclusions between parts of government. Justice said it was legal. State said not. We all remember John Yoo, right?
I can't see how it would help to have lawyers from Justice fighting lawyers from State in a war crimes trial.

Now what might also be important is how our nation deals with branches of government at odds like that. Obama did the right thing banning anything that is really torture. As far as I know the only place that still happens in the US is in the most advanced SERE training for our war fighters that are at most risk of capture. And their psychological counselors are required to experience that to get certified for treating those troops. Of course that may not be at all like what the Japanese did with waterboarding or our CIA people.

10 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 2:56:04pm

re: #7 iossarian

I don't think it's about fear of a backlash. The discovery process and trial may do more damage than convictions will do good. This is one of those times we have to remember our President has all access to information we will not see for decades if ever. In this instance I trust our President chose well.

And as hard as it might be to imagine, what if there were acquittals? It could happen, else why bother with a trial?

11 garzooma  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:16:52pm

For the day before Good Friday, here's a link to an article by David Townsend, The Passion of Dilawar of Yakubi, from the Nat'l Catholic Reporter that details these "interrogation techniques."

12 researchok  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:45:02pm

re: #3 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

I read the article.

No date given.

13 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:47:14pm

re: #10 Daniel Ballard

Oh, if there would be acquittals, fine. The point is, there should be trials for torturers and those who ordered torture. I mean, it's not controversial to prosecute war criminals. Or, rather, it shouldn't be.

14 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:49:37pm

re: #12 researchok

I read the article.

No date given.

Date of what?

What’s more, newly obtained documents reveal that State Department counselor Philip Zelikow told the Bush team in 2006 that using the controversial interrogation techniques were “prohibited” under U.S. law — “even if there is a compelling state interest asserted to justify them.”

Also there's "4/2/12" at the bottom of Image: StateFOIA11.jpg

15 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:07:57pm

re: #7 iossarian

I have to be careful how I phrase this, otherwise it's tinfoil hat time.

But I do think that Obama and more generally the Democrats in Washington are of the opinion that any such action would lead to such a massive backlash from the Republicans (in the form of political impeachments on even more absurdly trivial grounds, purely for starters) that they don't feel they can do anything here without severely damaging the US political process.

And to be honest, to some extent I agree with that position. As sucky as it is, it may be the better position to take for the promotion of long-term responsible government.

Hate the fact that the bastards got away with it. Oh well, they'll be dead soon.

I have to agree and at the same time echo RWC: Given the opinion of the Department of Justice, and the disclosure required for a trial, trying those CIA personnel who were alleged to have tortured would do more harm than good.

16 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:25:45pm

I have a question. If something can be a 'felony war crime', is there such a thing as a misdemeanor war crime? What would that be?

17 BishopX  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 1:56:58pm

re: #16 SanFranciscoZionist

You miss.

/I'm going to hell.


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Let's just admit that public education is mediocre at best.