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1 Ayeless in Ghazi  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 5:40:20am

I'm sure Spencer's evidence (contemporary, historical) for the existence of, say, Moses is ROCK SOLID /

2 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 6:16:47am

re: #1 Aye Pod

I'm sure Spencer's evidence (contemporary, historical) for the existence of, say, Moses is ROCK SOLID /

I don't know Spencer's religion, but this book will certainly be gobbled up by a lot of folks who accept existence of various Biblical personae without question.

3 researchok  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 6:57:42am

I'm glad you posted this. I would add your own remarks on right on the money.

There are books question question the existence of Jesus, there are book which question Jewish existence in Jerusalem. These kind of books don't even bother to disguise the agenda and biases of their authors, academic 'camouflage' notwithstanding.

Spenser's book will reside on the same bookshelf as Mein Kampf and the Protocols.

4 Ayeless in Ghazi  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 7:25:15am

re: #2 Adam, Eve and Steve

I don't know Spencer's religion, but this book will certainly be gobbled up by a lot of folks who accept existence of various Biblical personae without question.

There's historical scholarship and then there's this. This will mostly just be gobbled up by bigots I think.

5 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 7:29:08am

I suppose this is another attempt to delegitimize Islam as a religion. It'll be interesting to see how actual historians react to his book, assuming they would even give him the time of day.

I have to wonder what people like him & Yerushalmi envision happening if, after 1400+ years of existence, they could somehow manage to have Islam declared a non-religion by one (or more) Western "Christian" countries. Perhaps they believe the world's 1.5 billion Muslims would simply say, "Okay, you win." Or maybe we'll just evaporate, like magic? Uh-huh, go ahead and knock yourself out.

6 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 7:40:08am

Just a side note: interestingly, Soviet atheistic literature often tried to cast doubt on the historicity of Jesus, but it never entertained the possibility of Mohammed being mythical.

7 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 7:42:48am

re: #2 Adam, Eve and Steve

I don't know Spencer's religion, but this book will certainly be gobbled up by a lot of folks who accept existence of various Biblical personae without question.

Hate. Followed in distant second place by Melkite Greek Catholicism.

8 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 7:44:09am

re: #6 Adam, Eve and Steve

Hmm. That is interesting.

9 Buck  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 10:26:53am

Isn't denying the existence of Abraham, Moses or any of the Jewish biblical figures the same sort of "hate"?

10 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 10:37:15am

re: #9 Buck

Isn't denying the existence of Abraham, Moses or any of the Jewish biblical figures the same sort of "hate"?

I don't think in general being skeptical of Muhammad's existence is indicative of hate. But we're judging Spencer by his personal history.

Also, comparing Muhammad and Abraham+Moses is incorrect, since there are simply no reliable sources whatsoever for the latter's existence, given that the Biblical texts were written centuries after the time when they were supposed to have lived, while there are non-Muslim sources that are nearly contemporary (or in any case not far removed from) the time of Muhammad's life.

11 Buck  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 11:43:40am

re: #10 Adam, Eve and Steve

I don't think in general being skeptical of Muhammad's existence is indicative of hate. But we're judging Spencer by his personal history.

So when CuriousLurker says that "this is another attempt to delegitimize Islam as a religion." she is not referring to "being skeptical" of Muhammad's existence, she is really just talking about Spencer's history. Riiiiiight.

while there are non-Muslim sources that are nearly contemporary (or in any case not far removed from) the time of Muhammad's life.

Really? Can you be more specific what "nearly contemporary (or in any case not far removed from)" means in terms of years? 10, 20 .... 125?

12 Buck  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 11:47:32am

I see that you both updinged that comment, so you seem to agree that "being skeptical of Muhammad's existence is" NOT a problem.

13 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 11:58:06am

re: #11 Buck

So when CuriousLurker says that "this is another attempt to delegitimize Islam as a religion." she is not referring to "being skeptical" of Muhammad's existence, she is really just talking about Spencer's history. Riiight.

Sorry, do you think Spencer is an honest scholar who just happened to write this book because he wants to explore this issue honestly?

14 theheat  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 11:58:58am

Isn't Muhammad supposedly buried in Medina? I dunno, but it seems to me it makes a better case for existence than saying - poof- he ascended without a physical trace. Just saying.

15 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 12:02:32pm

re: #14 theheat

Isn't Muhammad supposedly buried in Medina? I dunno, but it seems to me it makes a better case for existence than saying - poof- he ascended without a physical trace. Just saying.

Well, this is really not a deciding factor. If, suppose, someone argues that Muhammad was a myth, then the burial would be a myth too. It's not like we can verify it.

16 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 2:40:42pm

LOL—apparently I'm not irrational enough to have this conversation, so I'll just sit back with my box of popcorn and watch Buck twist in the wind with his straw men as he presumes to try to determine what I REALLY think.

17 Buck  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 9:09:45pm

re: #13 Adam, Eve and Steve

Sorry, do you think Spencer is an honest scholar who just happened to write this book because he wants to explore this issue honestly?

You know that is not what I am saying. The title and comments are all about how Spencer is trying to, as CuriousLurker says attempting to de legitimize Islam as a religion. If that is wrong, then as I asked, denying the existence of Abraham, Moses or any of the Jewish biblical figures would be the same sort of "hate", or if you prefer de-legitimization.

You said that you don't being sceptical of (or I suppose denying) Muhammad's existence is indicative of hate. Is it attempting to de legitimize Islam as a religion?

Now Curiouslurker likes the idea of me twisting in the wind. I am not. However right now she refuses to discuss it. She did upding your comment, so without her I can only assume she is not offended by it.

I honestly could care less.


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