Pages

Jump to bottom

7 comments

1 researchok  Wed, Apr 25, 2012 11:16:54am

Mona Eltahawy hit the nail on the head when she describes the reality for many women in Egypt.

What is subject to discussion are the 'whys' this is so.

What is certain is there is no one answer, any more than there is a singular answer to whys of terrorism.

Different people respond differently to various and different stimuli.

Some women are comfortable under one tent but not another.

Some men demand authority from women because that is the only way they can get it. Other men seek intimacy via equality and sharing.

Some religious leaders fear a vibrant feminism because history has taught that when women are empowered there are great changes that occur. Other religious leaders want change and progress. Yet others care only about power.

And there are all the in between stations

Mona Eltahawy is right to note the status of women says a lot about where the power lies.

2 researchok  Wed, Apr 25, 2012 11:27:08am

I would add one more thing.

In many ways, this post resembles your earlier one regarding the efforts to keep the name of Orthodox Jewish predators from being named.

There is a deliberate effort to whitewash and/or minimize the problem.

This is a moral failure that undermines a community and community leaders claim to piety.

Apologists for moral failures ought to be ashamed of themselves. In their self serving myopia, they do not realize they are exacerbating the problem in everyone else's eyes.

3 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:12:27pm

re: #2 researchok

You're talking about two widely different issues. Regarding the Orthodox keeping the names of predators a secret, that is one or two specific communities in NY. It is not indicative of how Jewish communities are in general, Reform, Conservative or Orthodox in other places in the U.S., Europe or Israel.

There is a deep, ingrained problem with how women and children (namely girl children) are treated and reared in Africa and Middle and Far East Asia within African, Arab and Indian cultures. "Problem" is not even a fair word for the injustices done to women in these countries as the writer points out in her initial entry, although I would caution anyone who wishes to blame Islam as a religion. It's cultural and extends past Arab countries.

A wonderful group that is dedicated to empowering women specifically in these countries is the ICRW - International Center for Research on Women. Here is their group of directors - a fairly mixed, diverse group. Mostly women, but a few men.

4 researchok  Wed, Apr 25, 2012 1:30:41pm

re: #3 What, me worry?

You're talking about two widely different issues. Regarding the Orthodox keeping the names of predators a secret, that is one or two specific communities in NY. It is not indicative of how Jewish communities are in general, Reform, Conservative or Orthodox in other places in the U.S., Europe or Israel.

There is a deep, ingrained problem with how women and children (namely girl children) are treated and reared in Africa and Middle and Far East Asia within African, Arab and Indian cultures. "Problem" is not even a fair word for the injustices done to women in these countries as the writer points out in her initial entry, although I would caution anyone who wishes to blame Islam as a religion. It's cultural and extends past Arab countries.

A wonderful group that is dedicated to empowering women specifically in these countries is the ICRW - International Center for Research on Women. Here is their group of directors - a fairly mixed, diverse group. Mostly women, but a few men.

I would agree, up to a point.

That some groups within a greater group do not share similar behavioral patterns does not make the problem behavior less significant within that subgroup. Given the Orthodox group does represent a sizable group (and an influential one as well), this issue, by any standard of measurement is significant.

I would add that a cursory search revealed a whole lot of dysfunction within that subgroup. The fact these dysfunctions are now being addressed is a very good start, but there are no quick fixes.

Also, it is important to note (as you did) this is primarily a cultural issue as opposed to a religious one. That some religious figures have co opted the dysfunction to serve particular cultural/political/religious agenda in no way makes it anything other than a (dysfunctional) cultural issue.

5 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 25, 2012 2:34:09pm

re: #4 researchok

I believe the attorney in NY is referring to the Satmar group which do not represent Orthodox Judaism as a whole. They are a cult like Fred Phelps is a cult. You wouldn't say the Phelps brand of Christianity represents Christian theology or practice.

The larger point about the Orthodox (or anyone) being exempt from the law is ludicrous and any lawyer that would have the audacity to even bring up such a thing should have his license revoked. It's outlandish to make such a statement in a free country such as this where everyone is treated EQUALLY under the law. Jew, Muslim, Christian, whomever.

How many Jews in America? 1% or 2%? Of that a much smaller percent are Orthodox. They are not a sizable group in any way. However, abuse of women in many Arab or African countries, as well as Pakistan and India is widespread and goes beyond religious boundaries.

To CL's article which I didn't really address, it's awesome that men are speaking out even in countries such as Lebanon and Egypt. Lebanon especially is probably the most liberal of the Arab nations. I would like to see many more men speaking out or in the least, women, like the ones quoted above, being allowed their voice.

6 Achilles Tang  Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:55:34pm

re: #4 researchok

Also, it is important to note (as you did) this is primarily a cultural issue as opposed to a religious one. That some religious figures have co opted the dysfunction to serve particular cultural/political/religious agenda in no way makes it anything other than a (dysfunctional) cultural issue.

I cannot agree with that, as you seem to be suggesting that "some religious figures" have taken advantage of the religion, when it is obviously many, if not all, members of the group that are at fault. You cannot say that those who follow "some religious figures" are not equally at fault.

When a religion becomes inseparable from the culture, then you can call it the fault of the religion or the culture, interchangeably.

7 What, me worry?  Thu, Apr 26, 2012 9:14:39am

Opinions are one thing and facts are another. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they aren't entitled to their own facts.

Women are treated as second class citizens (3rd, 4th class?) in many developing nations. A large part of that is because they do not receive educational opportunities equivalent to men, starting from when they are children.

If you look at this PDF document, it analyzes the lives of young girls as they go through adolescence and their access to education. The document describes that when women have educational opportunities, fertility rates are lower, family sizes are smaller, and women’s health and economic status are stronger. They have better control of their own lives.

Page 6 of that document shows a chart that one of the worst places for secondary educational development is in Sub-Saharan Africa which is almost half that of the Arab Nations. Sub-Saharan Africa is primarily Christian, btw.

You won't find religion mentioned at all in this document. In fact, the ICRW focuses on regional issues, not religious ones.


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2021-06-05 2:51 pm PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Half-Mast Notice: Mass-Murder in Highland Park, Illinois Highland Park, Illinois is in Lake County, not Chicago as some reports have indicated. It is one of the ten wealthiest cities per captia in the United States, and the site of numerous films which require settings in mansions. ...
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷
8 hours, 10 minutes ago
Views: 83 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •
Goleta Park Our Sunday GetawayWe drove 80 miles up to this favorite spot. The weather was nice, the tides accommodating, and the waves calm. Too calm. Instead of ocean and beach, we shot wildlife in the brackish creek.
Rightwingconspirator
1 day, 6 hours ago
Views: 154 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 1 •
Train Songs Nine
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
3 days, 8 hours ago
Views: 243 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •
Train Songs Eight
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
3 days, 9 hours ago
Views: 285 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •
Train Songs Seven
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
3 days, 9 hours ago
Views: 240 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •
Train Songs Six
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
3 days, 9 hours ago
Views: 239 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •
Train Songs Five
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
1 week, 3 days ago
Views: 597 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 6
Tweets: 0 •
Train Songs Four
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
1 week, 3 days ago
Views: 592 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 •
Train Songs Three
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
1 week, 3 days ago
Views: 551 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 •
Snarky Puppy - Trinity (Extended Version) Snarky Puppy never lets you down, they always come out bright and enthusiastically high on the sounds. Snarky Puppy - Trinity (Extended Version)From Snarky Puppy's new album, Empire Central (September 2022, GroundUP Music)Stream/Buy: orcd.co Written by Mark LettieriArranged by ...
Thanos
2 weeks, 1 day ago
Views: 815 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 2 •