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1 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Apr 28, 2012 9:35:33am

I’m thinking of this book by David Drake.

As long as this war goes on the Tribunate will have absolute power!

It’s not the first time a government has operated on these principles and, unfortunately, it won’t be the last.

2 ProBosniaLiberal  Sat, Apr 28, 2012 9:49:34am

Considering the party we are talking about here, I find the headline and story obvious.

3 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Apr 28, 2012 12:20:45pm

Isn’t it great to see that there is at least ONE country in the Mideast where you can disagree with the leadership and not be tortured or killed? Those new “Arab Spring inspired” governments should take note.

4 lawhawk  Sat, Apr 28, 2012 1:46:05pm

re: #2 ProGunLiberal

Flip this around. What can be expected in peace talks with a party that still refuses to give up right of return to territory within Israel proper (outside the Green Line), refuses Israel’s rights to exist (Hamas is still part of the Palestinian Authority after all), and which refuses to consider any concessions on its part for the sake of peace.

Israel relinquished Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005, and instead of using it for advancing the terms of peace, the Palestinian terrorists turned it into a terror safe haven. Thousands of rockets have been fired from Gaza into Israel, and they are continuing to fire rockets sporadically into Israel even now in this time of relative calm.

Israel simply doesn’t have a partner in peace. Abbas plays the triangle offense allowing PRCs, Hamas, and PIJ to go after Israel, and his regime does little to advance peace by laying the groundwork with the Palestinians themselves to consider peace.

5 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 28, 2012 3:17:44pm

Thomas Friedman once quoted someone as saying that all Sharon knew how to do was mow the grass, and all Arafat knew how to do was grow the grass.

We have a similar pairing now, except neither of them is nearly as influential or hardass as their predecessors.

(God, I miss Arik Sharon. If someone had told me ten years ago I’d be saying that, I’d have laughed in their face.)

Also at Haaretz, Amos Harel has a good, rather challenging analysis piece on what Diskin’s doing here.

6 Flavia  Sat, Apr 28, 2012 8:48:44pm

re: #4 lawhawk

Israel simply doesn’t have a partner in peace.

Exactly. And to try to keep portraying Netanyahu as “the one not interested in peace” is disingenuous at best.

And I take a slight (slight!) exception to the idea that “Netanyahu is just trying to stay in power.” It could be a little more tricky than that: when a coalition in Israel falls apart, it’s the same as in Britain - then you have to have elections, & who’s running things while there’s elections? It could very well be that Netanyahu doesn’t want to have things up in the air right now, so he’s trying to keep things staus quo, or stable. And, yes, it could also be just a power thing, but, even if that is the case, it’s still not like in the PA where power means millions in US/EU money in your own, personal, bank account (or your wife’s bank account. Why, yes, I AM bitter about that, thank you for asking!). Arafat et al were/are a lot more transparent about just trying to actually keep the conflict going.

7 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 28, 2012 11:07:44pm

re: #6 Flavia

Exactly. And to try to keep portraying Netanyahu as “the one not interested in peace” is disingenuous at best.

And I take a slight (slight!) exception to the idea that “Netanyahu is just trying to stay in power.” It could be a little more tricky than that: when a coalition in Israel falls apart, it’s the same as in Britain - then you have to have elections, & who’s running things while there’s elections? It could very well be that Netanyahu doesn’t want to have things up in the air right now, so he’s trying to keep things staus quo, or stable. And, yes, it could also be just a power thing, but, even if that is the case, it’s still not like in the PA where power means millions in US/EU money in your own, personal, bank account (or your wife’s bank account. Why, yes, I AM bitter about that, thank you for asking!). Arafat et al were/are a lot more transparent about just trying to actually keep the conflict going.

My read of Bibi is that he truly does not have the imagination or the drive to move decisively toward peace. Some of this has to do with who he is, some of it has to do with the coalition he’s wrangling, and some of it has to do with the Israeli government’s incredible disillusionment after the high hopes of the nineties.

The problem is that he could be the biggest goddamn peacenik visionary in the world, and it wouldn’t change the intractibility of the current situation. And Israeli voters are going to have to have a much greater reason to believe that something can come of further negotiations before they take any more risks.

8 Bob Levin  Sun, Apr 29, 2012 2:09:36am

re: #2 ProGunLiberal

Actually, there is truth in your statement, but backwards. Considering the newspaper, the story is not surprising.

9 Bob Levin  Sun, Apr 29, 2012 2:11:18am

re: #5 SanFranciscoZionist

And, of course, Friedman was wrong, as Sharon engineered the withdrawal from Gaza.

10 Bob Levin  Sun, Apr 29, 2012 2:22:24am

Is everyone aware that the terms of the elected leaders of Fatah and Hamas were over years ago? Basically they are holding office illegally. They are getting paid when they shouldn’t be. And I would be willing to bet that their signatures on any treaty wouldn’t be valid.

I believe this is where discussions between Israel and Fatah last left off.

11 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 29, 2012 3:32:20pm

re: #9 Bob Levin

And, of course, Friedman was wrong, as Sharon engineered the withdrawal from Gaza.

Yeah, he did. I have always believed he was starting to batten down the hatches. If the withdrawal hadn’t happened, the aftermath of Hamas’ takeover would have been far more problematic for Israel.

My strongest instinct was to trust his judgement. He had a hell of a lot of experience, and he was willing to anger a lot of long-time supporters to do it. I don’t think it was a decision taken lightly. I’ve always wondered what would have come next.

I got yelled at a lot when I came out for the withdrawal of course. Hilariously, the same people who had been mad at me for criticizing Sharon were mad at me for supporting Sharon…

12 Bob Levin  Sun, Apr 29, 2012 4:42:34pm

re: #11 SanFranciscoZionist

I hear you. The gist of my comment was—of course, Friedman was wrong. If you start from that premise, knowledge awaits.

13 Flavia  Wed, May 2, 2012 2:33:25pm

re: #10 Bob Levin

Is everyone aware that the terms of the elected leaders of Fatah and Hamas were over years ago? Basically they are holding office illegally. They are getting paid when they shouldn’t be. And I would be willing to bet that their signatures on any treaty wouldn’t be valid.

I’ll go you one better: I’ll bet that they know this & have that in reserve to renege on any agreement they sign.

(As always, I could be wrong, & would be glad to be so)

14 Bob Levin  Wed, May 2, 2012 3:30:59pm

re: #13 Flavia

You bet Fatah and Hamas know this, as does everyone involved. It’s part of the peace charade.


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