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1 researchok  Wed, May 16, 2012 12:38:00am

An interesting- and valid viewpoint. No question any intelligence gathered would be invaluable.

However, the scenario begs the question- what if torture were the only way to elicit the intelligence?

2 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 16, 2012 12:40:54am

re: #1 researchok

However, the scenario begs the question- what if torture were the only way to elicit the intelligence?

I don't think this scenario begs this question at all.

3 ThomasLite  Wed, May 16, 2012 4:53:29am

re: #2 May Day! May Day!

it's a fair question though. the chances of a rather hardened AQ operative suddenly and voluntarily cooperating with US intelligence forces isn't all that great, one would think.

4 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, May 16, 2012 7:59:06am

It's bizarre that we are even having this discussion. At one time it was axiomatic, completely unquestioned, that a prominent enemy should be brought in alive if at all possible. If we had miraculously been able to kidnap Admiral Yamamoto rather than shooting down his plane, that would have been vastly preferable. Sam Houston counted it a great triumph that Santa Ana was captured rather than killed at the Battle of San Jacinto, and he was right.
Throughout history, leaders who wanted to portray themselves as heroic have made blood-curdling promises to go down fighting rather than submit to captivity. Some did, some didn't but it's interesting that they always posture themselves as preferring death.
If we can bring him in, do it. If not, well, it sucks to be him.
As for torture, that is off the table in this administration. With psychologists and experienced operatives taking over from the water-boarders and other cave-people, we might start getting results that would surprise casual observers.

5 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 16, 2012 11:52:09am

re: #3 ThomasLite

it's a fair question though. the chances of a rather hardened AQ operative suddenly and voluntarily cooperating with US intelligence forces isn't all that great, one would think.

It's wouldn't really be a fair question even if your probabilistic claim was correct, which you haven't shown by citing statistics on uncoerced cooperation.

It's a loaded question, in fact. The fair question would be "what legal options are there if the captive does not cooperate in the framework consistent with the International Humanitarian Law?". How did torture get in the question in the first place, given that it's not an option?

6 Political Atheist  Wed, May 16, 2012 2:16:59pm

re: #1 researchok

An interesting- and valid viewpoint. No question any intelligence gathered would be invaluable.

However, the scenario begs the question- what if torture were the only way to elicit the intelligence?

But that does not work. At least not for us. (Our military people in charge obviously fear torture as an effective means to get information as shown by the SERE training they require certain units to endure).

A better question-could we trick or turn him? Maybe, and that's worth a shot.

7 BishopX  Wed, May 16, 2012 4:20:10pm

re: #6 Daniel Ballard

The Military doesn't train it's members to endure torture to resist giving up information. The military trains it's members in resisting torture to prevent them being used in show trials. Most of the "enhanced interrogation" techniques used the by the US today were used by the North Koreans or Vietnamese previously in order to extract confessions.


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