Are Christian Fundamentalists Teaching Genocide in Our Schools?

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Are Christian Fundamentalists Teaching Genocide in Our Schools?

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FemNaziBitch

Religion • 6/02/12 5:10:42 am • Views: 680

alternet.org

The Bible has thousands of passages that may serve as the basis for instruction and inspiration. Not all of them are appropriate in all circumstances.

The story of Saul and the Amalekites is a case in point. It’s not a pretty story, and it is often used by people who don’t intend to do pretty things. In the book of 1 Samuel (15:3), God said to Saul:

“Now go, attack the Amalekites, and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.”

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24 comments

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freetoken Sat, Jun 2, 2012 5:17:16am

Oh yes, the Amalekites... no one knows who they really were, even if they really existed. A great deal of pre-Josiah "history" in the OT is pretty suspect.

jytdog Sat, Jun 2, 2012 7:05:55am

its a bad lede.. the article goes on to say

he first thing the curriculum makes clear is that if God gives instructions to kill a group of people, you must kill every last one:

"You are to go and completely destroy the Amalekites (AM-uh-leck-ites) – people, animals, every living thing. Nothing shall be left."

"That was pretty clear, wasn't it?" the manual tells the teachers to say to the kids.

Even more important, the Good News Club wants the children to know, the Amalakites were targeted for destruction on account of their religion, or lack of it. The instruction manual reads:

"The Amalekites had heard about Israel's true and living God many years before, but they refused to believe in him. The Amalekites refused to believe in God and God had promised punishment."

The instruction manual goes on to champion obedience in all things. In fact, pretty much every lesson that the Good News Club gives involves reminding children that they must, at all costs, obey. If God tells you to kill nonbelievers, he really wants you to kill them all. No questions asked, no exceptions allowed.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jun 2, 2012 7:09:03am

re: #2 jytdog

its a bad lede..

I don't get it. Why is it bad?

aagcobb Sat, Jun 2, 2012 7:57:14am

Yet another reason why we can't afford Romney as President; he will appoint far-right judicial activists to the Supreme Court, who will, among other things, further erode the separation of church and state.

jytdog Sat, Jun 2, 2012 7:59:12am

re: #3 I'm back in the USSR (sigh)

Freetoken's response was a lot like my initial one.. "yada yada the OT is full of lots of horrendous stuff, most of it mythological. Where's the beef?" It was unfortunate choice of the alternet folks to start with just citing the OT - there is real meat in the article. The point of the lede is to pull you in; this is written more like an essay. Fine for school, not so fine for blog land. Minor point tho!

I am grateful this was posted as I was not aware this was going on.

Achilles Tang Sat, Jun 2, 2012 9:42:56am

I thought Christianity became civilized, sort of, with the New Testament.

People who read the Old Testament and take it seriously are as perverted as the god it describes.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jun 2, 2012 9:44:32am

re: #6 Achilles Tang

I thought Christianity became civilized, sort of, with the New Testament.

People who read the Old Testament and take it seriously are as perverted as the god it describes.

Is that what you think about Judaism?

Achilles Tang Sat, Jun 2, 2012 9:49:22am

re: #7 I'm back in the USSR (sigh)

Is that what you think about Judaism?

I thought about that after posting. To be honest I don't know exactly how they see the OT, but I have never had the impression that they take the literal sadism in it literally. Tell me how they rationalize it, if you will.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jun 2, 2012 9:51:12am

re: #8 Achilles Tang

I thought about that after posting. To be honest I don't know exactly how they see the OT, but I have never had the impression that they take the literal sadism in it literally. Tell me how they rationalize it, if you will.

Well, someone who doesn't necessarily take all parts of the Hebrew Bible literally can still "take it seriously", so if you meant ultra-literalists, there's been a miscommunication.

SpaceJesus Sat, Jun 2, 2012 9:52:01am

god is love!

JeffFX Sat, Jun 2, 2012 9:53:41am

re: #8 Achilles Tang

I thought about that after posting. To be honest I don't know exactly how they see the OT, but I have never had the impression that they take the literal sadism in it literally. Tell me how they rationalize it, if you will.

They have a rich history of commentary that defangs the old-time religion. fundie xians ignore this.

Achilles Tang Sat, Jun 2, 2012 10:02:41am

re: #9 I'm back in the USSR (sigh)

Well, someone who doesn't necessarily take all parts of the Hebrew Bible literally can still "take it seriously", so if you meant ultra-literalists, there's been a miscommunication.

There is usually miscommunication on this kind of topic. Literalist or ultra literalist are the same to me. Either one takes something at face value, and by association everything else stated by the same speaker (aka God in this case) or one doesn't.

I think Jews disown the many calls to murder, and worse, in the OT. How they do so exactly, I don't know, but I don't categorize them with the so called Christians in the OT.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jun 2, 2012 10:25:28am

re: #12 Achilles Tang

There is usually miscommunication on this kind of topic. Literalist or ultra literalist are the same to me. Either one takes something at face value, and by association everything else stated by the same speaker (aka God in this case) or one doesn't.

But it doesn't work like that. For a Christian the god of the OT is still the god of the NT. Yet...

I think Jews disown the many calls to murder, and worse, in the OT. How they do so exactly, I don't know, but I don't categorize them with the so called Christians in the OT.

But there is no diff here between religious Jews and Christians. There are groups that reinterpret these passages, and there are groups that take them literally. Regardless of specific religion.

Achilles Tang Sat, Jun 2, 2012 10:46:11am

re: #13 I'm back in the USSR (sigh)

The NT is a lot more sane than the OT, IMHO, so I assume that the majority of Christians, and Jews, recognize the human element in both. Those that don't remain the primitives. I would call them pagans, but I don't want to insult anyone here.

Is there a new thread upstream yet?

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jun 2, 2012 10:51:02am

re: #14 Achilles Tang

The NT is a lot more sane than the OT, IMHO, so I assume that the majority of Christians, and Jews, recognize the human element in both. Those that don't remain the primitives. I would call them pagans, but I don't want to insult anyone here.

Is there a new thread upstream yet?

But you're all too happy to insult pagans?

half-/

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Jun 2, 2012 1:17:58pm

re: #14 Achilles Tang

The NT is a lot more sane than the OT, IMHO, so I assume that the majority of Christians, and Jews, recognize the human element in both. Those that don't remain the primitives. I would call them pagans, but I don't want to insult anyone here.

Is there a new thread upstream yet?

I'm a pagan :D

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Jun 2, 2012 1:18:45pm

re: #14 Achilles Tang

The NT is a lot more sane than the OT, IMHO, so I assume that the majority of Christians, and Jews, recognize the human element in both. Those that don't remain the primitives. I would call them pagans, but I don't want to insult anyone here.

Is there a new thread upstream yet?

Actually, more of a chaos magician, but pagan works too

Kruk Sat, Jun 2, 2012 2:15:29pm

re: #17 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]

Actually, more of a chaos magician, but pagan works too

Warforged battle sorcerer with two levels of paladin to get divine grace.

Damn, I miss Dungeons & Dragons Online.

jytdog Sun, Jun 3, 2012 5:18:34pm

re: #6 Achilles Tang

I am sorry but this is not only false but shows a bias against Judaism that a lot of Christians (or people who grew up in Christian-informed cultures) walk around with. Please reflect and root this out of yourself.

Some points:

1) I would say that there is not a single person on this planet who takes every sentence of any religious text literally.

2) If you are a Christian, then you must know that the whole Bible is a source of revelation, the "old" testament as well as the "new." Christians did not throw away the OT. Same God in both.

3) The NT is full of violence too:
[Link: skepticsannotatedbible.com...]

4) The OT is full of God's love
[Link: respondingtoskeptics.wordpress.com...]

Achilles Tang Sun, Jun 3, 2012 6:09:37pm

re: #19 jytdog

1: Demonstrably wrong.

2: Yes, the same god, and don't you forget it.

3: Yes

4: And make sure you pay attention to that and don't piss Him off.

jytdog Mon, Jun 4, 2012 4:25:47am

re: #20 Achilles Tang

1) OK, demonstrate away! (btw, I did mean "literally" -- there are many who take every sentence seriously, but b/c just about every religious text contradicts itself at some point, and also b/c just about every religious text has butt crazy stuff in it, even those who take every sentence seriously end up treating some things as not literal instruction, but rather as historical description or some kind metaphorical or metaphysical statement that doesn't actually mean what it says)

4) :)

Achilles Tang Mon, Jun 4, 2012 5:18:06am

re: #21 jytdog

Are we literally debating the literal meaning of literal here?

Literal is still literal even if it is nonsense.

jytdog Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:35:16pm

re: #22 Achilles Tang

Are we debating? Anyway I hope you back off the position that the OT is somehow the root of all evil.

Achilles Tang Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:52:30pm

re: #23 jytdog

Are we debating? Anyway I hope you back off the position that the OT is somehow the root of all evil.

Not the root of all evil by any means, just the description of another primitive god, much like all the countless ones worship before and with so so much in common with the people and their lives at the time it was written. Why, you could probably find many leaders of the day who sounded just like the god of the OT.

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