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1 Buck  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 9:33:24am

Gm has not paid back all of the Government loans. That is a myth.

They did use some new loans to pay back some of the original tarp monies.

Not the same thing.

2 Destro  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 9:56:45am

NYSE: GM 20.67 +1.10

Stock is up.

Republicans are filthy liars.

GM FINANCIAL HIGHLIGHTS
Sales* 151.84 Bil
Income* 5.73 Bil
Sales Growth* +10.80%
Income Growth* +62.50%
Net Profit Margin 3.79%

3 Bob Levin  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 10:25:23am

GM could turn this around in a second. Here's the problem: the new GM is marketing itself as having hip cars for young people, until the young people get to the showroom and find out that they can't afford the cars.

If GM would just learn from the internet--don't charge two houses for the cars. Make them affordable, make money providing infrastructure--make the decisions that capitalists make.

4 lawhawk  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 11:30:49am

re: #1 Buck

The TARP direct loans were paid back in 2010. However, the feds supported GM by making a direct investment in the company in the form of 500 million in stock. That too was part of the TARP plan to get the automaker out of bankruptcy.

The company would indeed have to see the stock price more than double in order for the feds to get out of the stock ownership business, but unless the company's fortunes improve even more than they have (the company is making record profits as they've managed to cut back their legacy costs and costs per vehicle are down due to renegotiated contracts with the UAW), the government would be stuck with the shares or sell them at a significant loss compared to what the government paid.

But even with record profits in a given year, we've seen how quickly fortunes can change for GM due to those costs dragging.

And I say all of this as neither a fan of GM or the bailout (an expedited bankruptcy occurred despite the twin doses of government assistance). The best argument in favor of the bailout is that the reconstituted GM is doing quite well and jobs were saved as a result. The argument against is that the expedited bankruptcy was the fix, not the bailout - in other words, GM could have arrived at essentially the same solution without the additional infusions had it gone in for reorganization during the Bush administration (but politics and optics meant that the bankruptcy would be pushed out of 2008 and in to early 2009, when Obama took office).

There's a difference between reorganization and liquidation, and the doomsayers were claiming bankruptcy would mean killing jobs and ending the company, ignoring that a reorganization would save the company and save jobs.

5 researchok  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 11:57:32am

All the while, GM bond holders (who should have been first in line) got stiffed.

6 Joanne  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 12:00:53pm

Let's not forget that in the US, companies pay healthcare costs, where in every other industrialized country, it's not a part of labor costs. That's, what, $12k per person annually, excluding retirees, which could be higher (I don't recall retiree numbers).

Healthcare costs keep us from competing on a level playing field with other industrialized nations. It's completely an economic ball and chain.

7 Joanne  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 12:06:18pm

re: #4 lawhawk

But what would bankruptcy have done to suppliers and the entire supply chain that is shared amongst varied auto makers? Many suppliers would have gone under if their invoices were not paid as a part of a bankruptcy proceeding. And that would have rippled throughout all auto manufacturing (and supplier) states and countries, which would have had a global economic impact (and globally, everyone was not doing well to start with).

8 Buck  Thu, Jul 5, 2012 6:16:36pm

re: #4 lawhawk

TARP Inspector General Christy Romero should know what she is talking about, GM still owes $41.5 Billion.

As of March 31, 2012, General Motors Company (“GM”) and Ally
Financial Inc. (“Ally Financial”), formerly GMAC Inc., remain in TARP. Taxpayers are still owed $27 billion for the TARP investment in GM and $14.5 billion for the TARP investment in Ally Financial. Taxpayers suffered a $2.9 billion loss on the TARP investment in Chrysler.

-- Second Quarter, FY2012 (including all full appendices)

9 Buck  Thu, Jul 5, 2012 6:24:17pm

Oh, and tell you what... you lend me $20 billion and I will pay you back a couple of billion a year. When I make a "profit" of $7.6 billion I will spend it on anything I want. If you will then lend me another $40 billion (after all I have been ontime with the paying you back) I will then pay you back everything I borrowed before (the rest of that $20 billion) and then we will be even. Right?

I mean I paid you back right? I can tell everyone that I paid back all the money right?

Ya! I am saved!

10 Buck  Thu, Jul 5, 2012 6:44:03pm

re: #6 Joanne (JustJay)

Let's not forget that in the US, companies pay healthcare costs, where in every other industrialized country, it's not a part of labor costs.

That is not exactly true. In Canada we earn less $$$ for doing the same job.
Sometimes the company pays for healthcare, and sometimes the employee pays (as part of a group). However the company has a much higher labour cost here than there.


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