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14 comments

1 celticdragon  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 1:00:13pm

Not good at all. Wow. :(

2 researchok  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 1:27:58pm

I feel that way about people who use children to blow up buses, restaurants, religious ceremonies and institutions, nurseries and promise genocide.

But that's just me.

I'm not excusing excesses but there have been more than one instance of children as human bombs.

After 60 plus years of this kind of dysfunction foisted on Israel and Israelis it isn't hard to understand how these things might happen.

All of Israel and what Israel is a nation cannot be measured by the Palestinian issue.

There are problems to be sure but over all, Israel has been remarkably restrained in dealing with some very bad people.

Finally, B'tselem is not without controversy when comes to videos.

They have created and creatively edited videos to suit their agenda.

3 Locker  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 1:37:21pm

I don't think any creative editing was responsible for me seeing that large adult soldier kick that kid while another soldier held him. I'm also guessing that if you think a kid is wired to blow you wouldn't kick him in the midsection.

4 researchok  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 1:45:06pm

re: #3 Locker

I do not know this was the case here. I do know these kind of videos have been manufactured in the past.

Certainly this must be looked in to and if indeed this policeman is guilty he will be appropriately punished as has been Israeli policy in the past. I certainly would endorse that.

It all boils to to 'compare and contrast'.

5 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 2:13:09pm

Yes, and true to form, the Israeli police department (or whoever) will conduct an investigation and if the video wasn't doctored and the officer is found culpable, he WILL be punished. Israel is a nation of laws.

6 Buck  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 4:14:30pm

You actually can't see the supposed kick. And you certainly can't see what the kid was doing before he was caught.

You can't hear what was being said.

I would call that creative editing for sure.

7 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 4:53:41pm

Sigh...one Israeli police officer kicks a Palestinian kid out of frustration, excess adrenaline, or simply because he is having a bad day and it becomes international news.

Meanwhile back here in the good old USA the same thing happens practically every day somewhere in this country and no one cares enough to even give half-a-shit about it. Police officers are human beings just like everyone else, no matter what country they are in.

The point being that they are not mindless automatons serving the "Will of The State" without exception or error. Apparently when they are Jewish however the actions of that single individual can be used to show the "true perfidy" of the entire State?

Whatever, I could post dozens of links here showing American cops beating the crap out of people, siccing attack dogs on them, and using mace and pepper spray against people who at that time did not present an immediate threat.

There is no doubt at this point that the individual who let emotion(s) override his professionalism as a police officer will be punished and most likely probably lose his livelihood because of this incident. I don't have a problem with that, being a law enforcement officer requires a much higher degree of restraint than any other job I can think of. If he cannot keep himself in check and follow protocol then he should not be wearing a badge.

I do however have a problem with the way this story is being disseminated as if it reflected against Israel itself as being somehow complicit in this one mans behavior.

8 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 6:27:55pm

Assuming the video's accurate, dude needs to have the book thrown at him so hard his brains will rattle. Conveniently, he'll be identifiable from that footage, and the Border Guard commander has already assigned a taskforce.

And yes, the usual suspects will use this to pad their case against Israel, already in progress. To some extent, that can't matter. You've just got to go ahead, check the evidence, and if it holds, toss Kicky Yossi in the brig and make a clear example.

9 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 6:55:19pm

Besides which...LOOK AT THE DAMN VIDEO! All that was a side of the boot "now go home and cry to your mommy" kick, not a wind-up full force kick delivered by the boot toe intended to break ribs. The Krav Maga Jaw hold the first Israeli soldier who chased the kid down and caught him had him in was probably a hell of a lot more painful by a factor of six or seven times than that weak ass "now don't let us catch you doing it again" half-hearted side of the boot kick.

Jeez, the things people let themselves get worked up about, but only when the media tells them they should be, simply boggles the mind. :p

10 Atlas Fails  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 8:30:11pm

re: #2 researchok

I feel that way about people who use children to blow up buses, restaurants, religious ceremonies and institutions, nurseries and promise genocide.

But that's just me.

I'm not excusing excesses but there have been more than one instance of children as human bombs.

After 60 plus years of this kind of dysfunction foisted on Israel and Israelis it isn't hard to understand how these things might happen.

All of Israel and what Israel is a nation cannot be measured by the Palestinian issue.

There are problems to be sure but over all, Israel has been remarkably restrained in dealing with some very bad people.

Finally, B'tselem is not without controversy when comes to videos.

They have created and creatively edited videos to suit their agenda.

The whole "but look at how bad those guys are!" argument has never held water with me. Wasn't that the same logic used by proponents of torture here in the US?

11 sliv_the_eli  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 9:58:49pm

Have to go with Buck on this one. I watched the video posted to the Guardian article half a dozen times, trying to discern any context to what the video shows. Full disclosure, I, as many lizards know, am extremely skeptical and critical of the "reporting" that the Guardian and other media outlets do when it comes to all things Israel, so, although I tried to view the video objectively, I have to admit that I am suspicous of the way Guardian reported the story and the spin they try to place on the incident.

With that said, here's my two cents. Everything about the clip suggests that something happened before the start of the clip, and that this kid was not exactly chosen at random for abuse. The body language of the second officer, the one who apparently delivers the kick, also suggests that his action was in response to some previous action by the kid which took place before the beginning of the clip.
Now, what that act was, or whether it in any way justified the response, clearly cannot be discerned from the video. But if past experience is a guide, the Israeli authorities will investigate and, if the officer's actions were improper, appropriate action will be taken against him. If, on the other hand, the kid had just committed an act of violence againt the officer -- i.e., threw stones, a brick or some other projectile that the Guardian and its ilk do not consider to be violent acts when directed against Israelis -- then what I viewed in the clip shown by the Guardian takes on a whole different meaning.

12 sliv_the_eli  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 10:44:37pm

Some additional context, from an article in today's Hurriyet Daily News out of Turkey:

According to B’Tselem, the incident took place June 29 close to the Tomb of the Patriarchs and Ibrahim mosque, a location where clashes between police and young Palestinian youth frequently occur.
* * *
The area close to the Tomb of the Patriarchs and Ibrahim mosque has seen recent friction between police and Palestinian boys with some police officers having complained of boys throwing stones.

[Link: www.hurriyetdailynews.com...]

13 researchok  Wed, Jul 4, 2012 12:11:43am

re: #10 Atlas Fails

The whole "but look at how bad those guys are!" argument has never held water with me. Wasn't that the same logic used by proponents of torture here in the US?

No.

The behavior seen on the video- whatever it was- is clearly outside the norm and certainly not policy.

Israel's policies have been remarkably restrained and consistent. Their accusers policies have also been remarkably consistent- violence, even directed at civilians (not to mention each other) is in their minds, a legitimate form of political expression. It has become acceptable when directed at at Israelis or for that matter, Jews living outside of Israel.

14 Bob Levin  Wed, Jul 4, 2012 4:34:36am

I think the last B'Tselem video release was in November of 2011. I would suspect, since this is what B'Tselem does, release video, that thousands of hours of footage is taken, continually monitoring the Israeli police, the IDF, any Israeli officials in uniform. That's the only way to capture this footage, the video has to be running before the event takes place.

So, eight months later, and with constant monitoring, B'Tselem finally has a few seconds of video worth releasing to much of the world that has a voracious appetite for exactly this product, Israelis acting in a seemingly abusive fashion.

As everyone above has stated, there will be an investigation. But no other police are scrutinized as closely as the Israelis. Taken as an organization, the Israelis must do incredibly humane work in the most trying of circumstances. Individually, we will see what happens. That there is the possibility of disciplinary action also attests to Israeli concern for human rights.

I don't know that B'Tselem intends to prove the humanity of the nation in which they live, but I think they are doing so--by continually monitoring every police and military action--and finding nothing for so many months, and close to nothing right now.

It is unfortunate that Israel alone must daily prove its humanity in a world--a world in which we know the realities in most every other place besides Israel.


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