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1 Bob Levin  Wed, Jul 4, 2012 4:42:07am

A fine enough distinction to hold the Eureka for a few days, or months. There's still time to plan the party.

2 Destro  Wed, Jul 4, 2012 6:39:29am

"Socialist" Europeans (using the American conservative meaning of Socialist) find something captialist non govt funded American scientists could not.

3 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 4, 2012 7:47:06am

re: #2 Destro

Yes and no. There are plenty of American scientists at Cern, and US contribution to it. There is not much point in duplicating something on this scale just for competitive reasons. On the other hand, if foresight had existed years ago, Cern or it's equivalent could certainly have been in the US, but then the Europeans would probably not have spent as much of the cost as they have.

4 Destro  Wed, Jul 4, 2012 8:05:14am

re: #3 Achilles Tang

There are plenty of American scientists at Cern, and US contribution to it.

OK, using the American conservative definition of socialist (which means anything funded by the govt through taxes) CERN is 100% socialist and American scientists at CERN are socialist employees. That is what I was trying to illustrate. That the American conservatives are idiots. CERN is also where socialism led to the invention of the WWW, another "socialist" European triumph.

5 Bob Levin  Wed, Jul 4, 2012 4:49:10pm

re: #4 Destro

I have to ask. Why would you use the 'American Conservative' definition of anything?

6 Destro  Wed, Jul 4, 2012 5:46:09pm

re: #5 Bob Levin

I have to ask. Why would you use the 'American Conservative' definition of anything?

Bob Levin, you do know that European conservatives like the European Christian Democrats would be considered "socialists" by the American conservatives. I want to do as much as possible to emphasis that the American conservatives are an aberration.

7 Bob Levin  Wed, Jul 4, 2012 8:06:07pm

re: #6 Destro

What I mean is, why would you even consider using a poor definition of a word? If the 'American Conservative' definition renders their position meaningless, why bother?

And historically, they aren't an aberration. They've been around since before the Civil War. With a few exceptions, they've been mostly irrelevant. I'd like to emphasize the world 'irrelevant'.

8 Destro  Thu, Jul 5, 2012 8:21:14am

re: #7 Bob Levin

What I mean is, why would you even consider using a poor definition of a word?

I am a former Republican party member but I am also an ex-pat living in Europe. maybe that is why I was able to be more open minded/free thinking than the rest of the GOP - but in any case any attempts to change the American right wing's mind regarding politics and socio-economic ideas is to understand what the right means by what they say.

It is very important to attack the right wing using their own words and world views.

For example. attack right wingers for using the internet since that (web browsers, etc) are a result of European govt funded 'socialism' out of CERN.

Also, I make the distinction and say "American conservatives" because I really like the right wing European model of the "social market". That may seem odd to Americans who if asked to implement the social market model of Germany into the USA would call it socialism when it is not the case.

9 Bob Levin  Thu, Jul 5, 2012 8:41:48am

re: #8 Destro

This is the crux of my point--

And historically, they aren't an aberration. They've been around since before the Civil War. With a few exceptions, they've been mostly irrelevant. I'd like to emphasize the world 'irrelevant'.

I should say, with a few exceptions in American history, they've been irrelevant. Which brings me back to the original question of 'why bother?' I haven't heard of anyone complaining about the research a CERN. So you're taking an irrelevant position, and then creating a strawman out of that position, and--I don't know.

To me, they'll either find the boson or they won't. But I'm putting more emotional effort into following the baseball season.

10 Destro  Thu, Jul 5, 2012 9:02:43am

I disagree that you assert that Republicans are mostly irrelevant since they almost won control of both branches of congress on the last election and Romney may win the upcoming election.

Also, the Republicans of today are not the same Republicans of a generation ago nor has the GOP been a kook party since the Civil War.

And next time a Republican says we should not have govt investment or how Europe is worse than America remind him of govt funded CERN (aka tax and spend "Socialism") which gave us the Web and the proof of the Higgs boson.

11 Bob Levin  Thu, Jul 5, 2012 9:43:06am

re: #10 Destro

I think you'll find that they remained irrelevant by quite a few almosts. They simply can't get the majority to go with them. It hasn't been for lack of trying. Last election was far from standard, as most Americans were aware that we dodged an economic bullet, although the extent of the damage was not fully known. The President did not acknowledge this, which caused great anger amidst the electorate. The right wing won't be so lucky this time.

This coalition has not always been Republican, but they have been a coalition for over 150 years.

This nation has genuine problems it must confront, and the solution will not be coming from this bunch. Hence, spending time on baseball is more useful.


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