Pages

 

Recent Pages by imp_62 (shutdown):
Norquist Tax Pledge Is a Muslim Terrorist Plot! Russian Diplomat Says Assad Willing to Step Down in 'Civilized Way' Syria Rebels Seize Iraq Border BBC Rejects Jerusalem as Capital of Israel - and Omits Jerusalem from Olympic Country Summary. 'Mahdi' - New Virus Found Targeting Iran

Jump to bottom

7 comments

1 Destro  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:16:54pm

I had come up with a solution for the Palestinian 'return' question once as part of a foreign policy exercises.

I proposed that all Palestinians who can prove land ownership get to keep the ownership as individual property owners but there would be no right of return but rather right of property return.

Also, the private Israelis using the land would then have to pay rent to the individual Palestinians (not to the Palestine govt). The money for that would come from international sources for a limited time to help Israel and Israelis adjust.

The advantage of having Israel pay the land rent to individual Palestinians who can not return is that A) It will ease their economic need for return and B) It will have the Palestinian Arabs for the first time have a vested interest in Israel existing and thriving because Israel is now a source of capital for them. Palestinians become by default capital investors in Israel!

The only exception to the rent sceme is land taken over for public works like roads or govt buildings in cases where eminent domain would have been at work and a one time payment would be made (market cost of real estate at time of building plus interest).

2 shutdown  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:52:20pm

re: #1 Destro

Are you referring to any land owned by an individual who chose to leave Israel after its creation? Where does being a refugee end and "temporarily" abandoning your property at the encouragement of the Arab Legion begin (to return after the Arab Legion kills all the Jews and moots the existence of the State)? A refugee is defined as someone who flees to escape death or persecution. UNWRA has worked relentlessly to change that definition for Palestinians to mean any person, or descendant of that person, who at the time of the creation of State of Israel left the country. Even the theory of your solution is unworkable. The "Right of Return" is a stalking horse; a red herring. The true objective is to so fundamentally realign the demographics of Israel that the maintenance of its Jewish identity and its safe haven status for Jews everywhere is rendered impossible. 64 years after the founding of Israel, there are Palestinians identified as refugees suckling at the teat of UNWRA, living in "refugee camps" - which are actually fully functioning municipalities, for the most part. 67 years after the end of WWII, you can not point to a single "refugee" or "displaced person" remaining as a result of a war which killed and displaced tens of millions. Why do you think that is?

3 Destro  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 10:07:03pm
Are you referring to any land owned by an individual who chose to leave Israel after its creation?

Damn right I am. I consider property rights sacred, comrade. I don't consider sovereignty the same as property. I own property around the world, that does not mean it is sovereign US land because I as an American citizen own it.

Firstly, why would you penalize people leaving a war zone? Secondly, your response come from a position of non negotiation. Under your position you will live in a world where hostilities don't end and based on the proposition the USA can get Israel out of a jam if hostilities continue into the unknown future.

Lastly, since this is property ownership based compensation then it does not matter if they are "Palestinian" or "Jordanian" or "Arab". Meanwhile, they are not living in Israel and of course this is based on the Palestinian state recognizing Israel as a sovereign nation per the UN charter (no offensive wars allowed, right to exist, etc). Since my solution deals with a viable way to eliminate the right of return in such a way as to satisfy both sides why do you rehash to me the problems of a right of return when the whole point of this is to eliminate that in the first place?

PS: There are refugees from the Armenian genocide over a hundred years ago. You think they forgot their villages? Many Armenians don't want to return but would like comepnsation and recognition. Armenians also used to carry terror attacks in Turks but that has ended with the re-emergence of an independent Armenia (No, I am not Armenian).

4 shutdown  Fri, Jul 13, 2012 6:23:29am

Asinine and undifferentiated approach to a complex problem. Property rights are not "sacred" simply because Americans believe property and ownership and money are the be all, end all. You fail to address my assertion that property claims and rights of return are mere stalking horse arguments; and you also fail to address the issue of never-ending refugee status. If the Palestinian clamouring for a "right of return" could be settled with a few billion dollars, it would have been settled decades ago. Your thinking is typical of a school of thought that thinks everything is about assets, without considering differing cultures and mentalities. And don't call me comrade.

5 Flavia  Mon, Jul 16, 2012 10:18:07pm

re: #1 Destro

I had come up with a solution for the Palestinian 'return' question once as part of a foreign policy exercises.

I proposed that all Palestinians who can prove land ownership get to keep the ownership as individual property owners but there would be no right of return but rather right of property return. [snip rest solely for brevity]

The Israeli government has tried to pay everyone who left for the property they left behind. The only ones who haven't taken the money are those who insist on coming back. Much as I sympathize, I understand even more strongly why Israel doesn't want to let these people back in. I wouldn't either.

I say these people should be given the property that Jews were thrown off of in '47 (Yes, there was a lot of sarcasm in that remark -bitter, angry sarcasm).

6 Destro  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 6:59:22am

re: #5 Flavia

There was more to the proposal, like the Palestinian state had to recognize Israel's right to exist. Also, my proposal was that the rent money would be paid directly to Palestinians and not the Palestinian state. All Palestinians who refuse the rent payment will be considered absentee landlords and their property rights revoked after a 5 year grace period. Money collected by Israel during this disputed period would be returned to the Israeli rent payer.

In other words, my proposal has built in incentives for Palestinians to accept a new reality and move on. By getting money directly, Palestinians will be less beholden to hard line political leaders. And there is punishment by loss of land and rent dues by them by not accepting the new reality.

I think Jews have been able to get some compensation for lost property from Europe. Though not a Jewish case per say, the Dracula family was able to get the castle back from the post communist Romanian state for example so this property restoration or compensation from losses in WW2 and the Iron Curtain era is going on in Europe.

7 Destro  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:09:05am

re: #4 Ascher

Asinine and undifferentiated approach to a complex problem. Property rights are not "sacred" simply because Americans believe property and ownership and money are the be all, end all. You fail to address my assertion that property claims and rights of return are mere stalking horse arguments; and you also fail to address the issue of never-ending refugee status. If the Palestinian clamouring for a "right of return" could be settled with a few billion dollars, it would have been settled decades ago. Your thinking is typical of a school of thought that thinks everything is about assets, without considering differing cultures and mentalities. And don't call me comrade.

I did address the right of return. While retaining their property rights, the Arabs would lose their right of return.

We don't know if they would not accept this proposal because it will mean a lifetime of rent income for them if they wish to not sell property.

Maybe because I don't live in one place anymore I don't value national identity as much any more. It is very liberating not belonging that way. I have my property and my money, a science and secular based world view and my human rights protected under international law and for me all is well in the world.

I just think you don't want to pay rent is all, effendi.


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
1 hour ago
Views: 31 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
3 days ago
Views: 154 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1