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1 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:30:00pm

Despicable.

2 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 5:34:40pm

No, no, you see, it's all part of a sci-fi plot. Doctor Who, maybe. Israel's non-possession of an entry or a capital city, unlike every other nation on friggin Earth, is a sign of...um...a wormhole. Maybe an alien invasion.

Yeah, that's it. It's not good old fashion anti-Semitism.

3 Aye Pod  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 12:19:49am

Wikipedia is in on the conspiracy too.

Israel's financial centre is Tel Aviv,[18] while Jerusalem is the country's most populous city, and its capital (although not recognized internationally as such). The population of Israel, as defined by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics, was estimated in 2012 to be 7,879,500 people, of whom 5,930,000 are Jewish. Arabs form the country's second-largest ethnic group with 1,622,500 people.[3] The great majority of Israeli Arabs are settled-Muslims, with smaller but significant numbers of semi-settled Negev Bedouins and Arab Christians. Other minorities include various ethnic and ethno-religious denominations such as Druze, Circassians, Samaritans, Maronites and others.

I don't know how I'm ever going to stop vomiting.

4 Aye Pod  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 8:23:19am

I was being sarcastic btw.

5 shutdown  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:12:01am

re: #3 Aye Pod

How does this page invite sarcasm?

6 Aye Pod  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:55:56am

re: #5 Ascher

Because it's stupid. It's the kind of hysterical idiotic rant that you'd expect to find on 'Jihad Watch'.

The BBC tries to be neutral on disputed issues, and as the Wiki article I posted shows, this is a disputed issue. Therefore they are not going to use language which suggests that they have decided that one side of the dispute has the right of it. Whether the BBC has got the balance right here is of course open to argument.

However, to suggest that the BBC is an antisemitic organisation as you and others here have done is a hysterical over reaction.

If you were familiar with the BBC's television output (they've just finished a series of documentaries about the victims of the Holocaust, for example) you'd realise how silly that suggestion is.

Two people who clearly did not catch my sarcasm updinged my post, thinking that I was reinforcing the idea that the BBC was antisemitic and adding Wikipedia to the list of antisemitic organisations. Would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Ps Sorry about the late response - had connection issues yesterday.

7 shutdown  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:51:41am

re: #6 Aye Pod

What an asinine response. Every country page has full information, the BBC has since had to fix the page on Israel, and my page starts with a quote on how the BBC apologized to UK Muslim groups for daring to state publicly that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. The BBC has a long history of biased reporting on Israel, yet somehow a page pointing out yet another spineless, quisling act on their part is a hysterical idiot rant?

Do both of us a favour and resist the urge to comment if you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

Also: counting the minutes until a sycophantic someone downdings my post and uses profanity to describe her feelings towards me.

8 shutdown  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:01:54am

re: #6 Aye Pod

Do you seriously not understand how disturbing it is for a Jew to see evidence that an organization such as the BBC (publicly funded, no less) is willing to be ambiguous about Israel's sovereignty; to see Israel treated on a separate footing than other sovereign countries? I found your response unsettling, to say the least.

9 Aye Pod  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:23:51am

re: #7 Ascher

The BBC has a long history of biased reporting on Israel, yet somehow a page pointing out yet another spineless, quisling act on their part is a hysterical idiot rant?

Adding yet more hysteria isn't going to help your case. No, the BBC is not an anti semitic organisation. They try to appear as neutral as possible. This always upsets extremists, of course.

Also: counting the minutes until a sycophantic someone downdings my post and uses profanity to describe her feelings towards me.

Don't be passive-aggressive. Who are you referring to?

10 Aye Pod  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:32:06am

re: #8 Ascher

Do you seriously not understand how disturbing it is for a Jew to see evidence that an organization such as the BBC (publicly funded, no less) is willing to be ambiguous about Israel's sovereignty; to see Israel treated on a separate footing than other sovereign countries? I found your response unsettling, to say the least.

As I already posted:

!srael's financial centre is Tel Aviv,[18] while Jerusalem is the country's most populous city, and its capital (although not recognized internationally as such).

The BBC likes to appear neutral. Argue about the wisdom of this particular decision if you want, my beef is with the idiotic knee jerk accusation of antisemitism against the BBC. It's an old wingnut trope that belongs on Jihad Watch, not here.

And as I indicated earlier, if you had any real familiarity with the BBC's output, instead of what you know from wingnut scare stories on the internet, you'd realise how silly the accusation is.

11 sliv_the_eli  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:53:38am

re: #10 Aye Pod

If only Ascher's post had actually accused the BBC of antisemitism, your position would make perfect sense. However, his post did nothing of the sort. He accused the BBC of exhibiting its oft-repeated anti-Israel bias in its denying Israel, an actual sovereign member state of the UN, the right to designate its capital city, while designating "East Jerusalem" as the capital city for a non-state. He further criticized the BBC for deleting the reference to Israel's capital in response to complaints by Arab and Muslim public interest groups. Such behavior by the BBC is sadly not inconsistent with problems of bias in its reporting -- problems, incidentally, that led to a long investigation and report by the BBC's overseers (publication of which which the BBC has been fighting tooth and nail in court to prevent).

As for the fact that Wikipedia states that the status of Jerusalem is "not internationally recognized", that is true. But so, too, is the status of "East Jerusalem" -- whatever that is, since no such city has ever existed -- yet the BBC has no compunction about listing that as a capital of Palestine.

Now, for anyone still wondering if the BBC's action evidences an anti-Israel bias within that organization, I suggest this simple exercise. Ask yourself if the BBC would change its designation of Palestine's capital in response to complaints form Jewish or pro-Israeli public interest groups. Also, answer the question honestly. Because we all know that the answer to the question is a resounding and unqualified "No."

12 Aye Pod  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:45:01am

re: #11 sliv_the_eli

If only Ascher's post had actually accused the BBC of antisemitism, your position would make perfect sense.

He had plenty of opportunity to deny that he was accusing the BBC of antisemitism, instead he doubled down on his attack, calling them 'spineless quislings'.

Further more post no 2 did explicitly suggest that the BBC were being anti semitic (the good old fashioned sort) and Ascher updinged it, so his feelings on that are really pretty clear.

Ask yourself if the BBC would change its designation of Palestine's capital in response to complaints form Jewish or pro-Israeli public interest groups.

No reason in principle why not. The BBC has acknowledged and responded to criticism before. I have made my own criticisms of the BBC's middle east reporting myself, and I'm the first to acknowledge that there have been incidents of bias. The BBC are not and will never be perfect, but to suggest that they are a bunch of antisemites or Israel haters is absolute nonsense, and is a big sympathy/credibility loser IMO.

Also, answer the question honestly. Because we all know that the answer to the question is a resounding and unqualified "No."

You do realise that's begging the question just a tiny bit? lol

13 sliv_the_eli  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:53:13am

re: #12 Aye Pod

No reason in principle why not. The BBC has acknowledged and responded to criticism before. I have made my own criticisms of the BBC's middle east reporting myself, and I'm the first to acknowledge that there have been incidents of bias. The BBC are not and will never be perfect, but to suggest that they are a bunch of antisemites or Israel haters is absolute nonsense, and is a big sympathy/credibility loser IMO.

OK, points well taken. Just wanted to comment on your statement above. I agree that there is "no reason in principle" why the BBC would not remove the designation of East Jerusalem as Palestine's capital. But the issue is not whether, in principle, there is a reason they would not do so, but whether they would in fact do so. I am quite confident in opining, based upon long experience reading BBC reporting on Israel and observing their method of responding to criticism of that reporting, that they would do nothing of the sort.

Incidentally, I also do not believe that any mainstream Jewish or pro-Israel public interest groups would try to get the BBC to change their designation of Palestine's capital. But that is an entirely different issue for another place and time.

14 shutdown  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:37:32am

There is so much documentation on the ongoing bias exhibited by the BBC that it is hard to find a reasonable summary. I also made an effort to find an article written by a party who can not be accused of starting from a prejudicial position; i.e. a site or individual focusing on the partisan defense of Israel. Here is an essay by David Frum on the topic of institutionalized anti-Israel bias at the BBC.

Additionally, you might remember the so-called Balen Report on the issue of BBC's reporting bias. Interestingly, the BBC have spent GPP200,000 in legal fees to keep the report under wraps. The BBC has itself posted on this extraordinary effort by a news organization to suppress information. One might reasonably, based on the alleged facts of the BBC's demonstrated bias (which after all gave rise to a full fledged investigation), draw some conclusions as to why it is so important to the BBC to suppress the Balen Report.

But in the end, to simply dismiss a discussion of BBC bias as a 'hysterical idiotic rant' misses the mark by a mile.

15 Aye Pod  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:03:02am

re: #14 Ascher

There is so much documentation on the ongoing bias exhibited by the BBC that it is hard to find a reasonable summary.

But in the meantime, here's one from a wingnut (albeit one who has recently been having misgivings). I'm sure most of the summaries you have found- the unreasonable ones? - can't be posted here because they'd only serve to demonstrate my point even more.

The BBC has itself posted on this extraordinary effort by a news organization to suppress information. One might reasonably, based on the alleged facts of the BBC's demonstrated bias (which after all gave rise to a full fledged investigation), draw some conclusions as to why it is so important to the BBC to suppress the Balen Report.

Yes one might quite reasonably adopt to believe in conspiracy theories./

But in the end, to simply dismiss a discussion of BBC bias as a 'hysterical idiotic rant' misses the mark by a mile.

Not my objection. I've discussed bias in individual reports myself. However the language and tone of your own comments in the article - "hive mind", "Can it be long before the BBC refers to Israel as “the Zionist entity”?" - are OTT and invite more of the same. And sure enough, when someone goes just a little bit further and accuses the BBC of 'good old fashioned antisemitism' you give them an upding.

You then go further along the hysteria path with terms like 'spineless' and 'quisling' - I guess you are saying that the BBC are biased against Israel because they are scared of 'the enemy' ie the Palestinians/muslims? Another nugget of purest wingnut, 2004 vintage. Well done!

And you still don't have the guts to answer my question as to the the fuck you were referring to when you said this:

Also: counting the minutes until a sycophantic someone downdings my post and uses profanity to describe her feelings towards me.

Never mind, just fuck off.

16 Aye Pod  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:08:04am

Ps Is there an etiquette for telling someone to fuck off on their own page?

17 shutdown  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 12:36:50pm

...


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