Pages

Jump to bottom

7 comments

1 Bob Dillon  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 1:25:09am

Gee ... I thot I heard a horn blowing. Oh sh*t - I'm standing on the tracks.

2 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 1:25:54am

LOL

Aren't we all.

3 Bob Dillon  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 1:33:12am

re: #2 researchok

Wise ones step aside.

4 Bob Levin  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 5:35:38am
“The machines have taken over, right?” said Patrick Healy, the chief executive of the Issuer Advisory Group, a capital markets consulting firm. “When events like this happen they just reaffirm that these aren’t investors, these are traders.”

Once again, let me preface this by saying it's actually a question, or half of a dialogue, thesis or anti-thesis or whatever.

This situation may not be a bad thing, or a totally bad thing. Historically, one of the ways in which investments and real wealth grew is through the acceleration of the pace of which capital moves. The faster capital can move, the greater the growth in wealth. This factor has been more beneficial than innovation--which is now accelerating rapidly, but still not fast enough to decrease unemployment.

But the other side of the equation, the speed of capital--that has topped out. It can't go any faster than the speed of light. And this means that this equation, a moving equation describing society, is stuck for the time being. In the interim, we have trading which is directing the movement of speed of light capital. And as I mentioned the other day, trading by itself creates value, which could render the predictions of economic collapse to become as meaningful as preseason sports predictions.

5 Destro  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:24:44am

re: #4 Bob Levin

Once again, let me preface this by saying it's actually a question, or half of a dialogue, thesis or anti-thesis or whatever.

This situation may not be a bad thing, or a totally bad thing. Historically, one of the ways in which investments and real wealth grew is through the acceleration of the pace of which capital moves. The faster capital can move, the greater the growth in wealth. This factor has been more beneficial than innovation--which is now accelerating rapidly, but still not fast enough to decrease unemployment.

But the other side of the equation, the speed of capital--that has topped out. It can't go any faster than the speed of light. And this means that this equation, a moving equation describing society, is stuck for the time being. In the interim, we have trading which is directing the movement of speed of light capital. And as I mentioned the other day, trading by itself creates value, which could render the predictions of economic collapse to become as meaningful as preseason sports predictions.

Trading by itself does not create value. Creation creates value. The value of the gold metal for example was enhanced when it was turned to a ring. The raw diamond's value was enhanced when it was faceted.

What you described spreading was not value but the Ebola virus. Capitalism is the Ebola virus.

Financial trading is what destroyed the world economy and trading produces nothing of value.

6 Destro  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:38:28am
7 Bob Levin  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:22:20am

re: #5 Destro

Okay. I'll have this discussion. However, are we going to have it from a Marxist perspective, or are we going to take a more pragmatic stance?

If we go from a Marxist perspective, then nothing has intrinsic value, other than food and some form of medicine--but that is only because we value life. Capitalism creates certain abstractions that we begin to consider more real than reality--which he talked about in the opening chapter of Capital, describing the idea of commodity, or commodity fetishism as it is usually called.

This act of living in a world of essentially artificial abstraction is, I believe, the essence of the idea of 'false consciousness'. However, this is where Marx ran into a little problem--which is, how does one break the chains of false consciousness into what is real? How can society free itself from false consciousness? I don't think he ever really answered that, since Capital was written after the Manifesto and after the Grundrisse.

In the meantime, in our dreamworld, we have to eat and have a place to live, and use money--which ends up being a bit more objective. Even an ardent capitalist theorist like Milton Friedman would not argue for 'intrinsic value'. Value is essentially defined by the argument of the market. Which is why a piece of cardboard with the picture of Honus Wagner sells for close to half a million dollars. Since there is no way to determine the objective intrinsic value, the market assigns a value through bidding and negotiation--which appears to us as rising or falling prices.


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
ROXY MUSIC - RE-MAKE/RE-MODEL LIVE at the APOLLO 2001 Cpl593h ROXY MUSIC - RE-MAKE/RE-MODEL LIVE AT THE APOLLO 2001Original by the first Roxy Music Album , the very first song , 1972lyrics below :I tried, but I could not find a wayLooking back, all I did was look awayNext ...
Thanos
1 day, 22 hours ago
Views: 243 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
“Midnight Picnic Near the Ocean” - Forest BaileyRecorded live at Snaggy Mountain in Burnsville North Carolina. 24-bit Studio Master digital download available at: forestbaileymusic.com Buy/Listen:Spotify: open.spotify.comApple Music: music.apple.com Visit Forest BaileyWebsite: forestbaileymusic.comInstagram: instagram.comFacebook: facebook.comYouTube: youtube.comBandsintown: bandsintown.com
Thanos
3 days, 4 hours ago
Views: 302 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 191014After three weeks of meh pictures and invisible progress, we were determined to have something to photograph today. And we were eager to start on the upper shelf. We were close, but not quite there, and we were determined! To ...
DangerMan
1 week ago
Views: 471 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 3
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Jack Klatt - Highway Lines (Live at Radio Heartland)Jack Klatt performs 'Highway Lines' from his 2019 album, 'It Ain't The Same,' live in the studio of Radio Heartland at The Current.
Thanos
1 week, 2 days ago
Views: 439 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
Brittany Howard Performing ‘13th Century Metal’ Live on KCRW Brittany Howard's solo debut album Jaime puts her powerhouse vocals on full display. It also takes us front and center to her very personal journey of loss, love and self-discovery. We're thrilled to welcome her back to KCRW to ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 639 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
(15) Rodrigo Y Gabriela - Electric Soul (Live on KEXP) kexp.org presents Rodrigo y Gabriela performing "Electric Soul" live in the KEXP gathering space. Recorded July 14, 2019. Host: Stevie ZoomAudio Engineers: Kessiah Gordon & Kevin SuggsAudio Mixer: David MarchantCameras: Jim Beckmann, Alaia D'Alessandro, Luke Knecht & Justin WIlmoreEditor: ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 656 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
Fresh Air (Remastered) Quicksilver Messenger Service Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group Fresh Air (Remastered) · Quicksilver Messenger Service Classic Masters ℗ 2001 Capitol Records, LLC Released on: 2007-01-01 Producer: Quicksilver Messenger ServiceStudio Personnel, Mastering Engineer: Robert VosgienComposer: Jesse Oris Farrow Auto-generated by YouTube. ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 714 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
Jon Anderson - Song of SevenFrom the 1980 album "Song of Seven".
Thanos
1 week, 6 days ago
Views: 734 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 191006 Today we have to take a few steps back in explanation. The pond is going to have three levels. Sort of an upside down ziggurat. The lowest level, in the center we call ‘the channel’. After the liner is ...
DangerMan
2 weeks, 1 day ago
Views: 841 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Jon Anderson - Change We MustFrom the 1994 album "Change We Must".
Thanos
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Views: 913 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook