Pages

Jump to bottom

16 comments

1 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 3:10:05pm

I agree with you, and in my opinion, a very good post regarding the Assange case, which has now turned into a full-on game of diplomatic one-upsmanship.

And yes, Mr. Assange's rights do still matter. Innocent until proven guilty. And as you point out quite nicely, Mr. Assange has indeed done himself a gross disservice, overall, by "placing himself at the center of this shitstorm and doing very little to extract himself from it with some semblance of dignity".

It will be interesting to see where this all goes from here. That is, unless Mr. Assange is planning on pulling a Cardinal Mindszenty, in which case fifteen years from now, everyone's kids are going to be asking, "Who's Julian Assange and why has he been living in an Embassy in London since 2012? Is he, like, homeless or something?"

2 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 3:26:34pm

I am uncomfortable with people referring to the Swedish charges as "rape." He failed to use a condom with a woman who had asked him to use one. Ungentlemanly.

I'm not entirely sure what charges he faces in the US.

3 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 3:41:55pm

re: #2 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I am uncomfortable with people referring to the Swedish charges as "rape." He failed to use a condom with a woman who had asked him to use one. Ungentlemanly.

I'm not entirely sure what charges he faces in the US.

If it's actually considered rape in Sweden then I won't quibble with the term. It's definitely creepy, fucked up behavior.

Right now he faces no charges in the US, DOJ prosecutors are playing their cards very close to the vest.

4 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 3:56:31pm

Repeated from a thread earlier

The issue I have with Assange is the harm done to good works that must also remain secret. He has this naive assumption that if there were no secrets the world would be wonderful. WRONG. If the west had no military or strategic goals the world would be far better off. Wrong again.

His biggest flaw however is that smug certainty the he knows better than all the rest of us in these matters. Has no fear of consequences for others from his actions.

5 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:12:13pm

re: #4 Daniel Ballard

Repeated from a thread earlier

The issue I have with Assange is the harm done to good works that must also remain secret. He has this naive assumption that if there were no secrets the world would be wonderful. WRONG. If the west had no military or strategic goals the world would be far better off. Wrong again.

His biggest flaw however is that smug certainty the he knows better than all the rest of us in these matters. Has no fear of consequences for others from his actions.

I'll buy that real, extensive harm has been done by Assange. At the same time he's not the one who made promises to safeguard the anonymity of our intelligence assets, were were. Our own military put a disaffected, bi-polar jackass with a history of violence and disciplinary issues in charge of safeguarding all that information. We own that, I'm not entirely convinced the fact that a foreign national who owes us no allegiance whatsoever exploited Manning makes that foreign national the root cause of the problem.

We might also keep in mind the dubious motives behind keeping some of the leaked information secret in the first place. The fact that our tax dollars went to pay directly for little boys to be raped at a Bacha Bazi party for Afghan policemen would have had a direct impact on public opinion of the righteousness of our involvement there.

6 John Vreeland  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:58:15pm

I suspect that if we (USA) were going to ask for extradition we would have done it by now. In any event the UK has apparently decided they are satisfied with the idea of Assange remaining as a permanent guest of the Ecuadorian embassy. There are worse prisons.

7 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:35:28pm

I'm of two minds. The issue of whether his legal right are being respected is important, and I seriously doubt that Sweden normally pursues rape cases with no aggravating factors to quite this extent. So to the extent that he is being pursued in any way illegally--as opposed to extraordinarily--I am certainly concerned.

But while I won't excuse bad behavior by state actors to the extent that I would for purposes of getting the likes of Bin Laden, there is a certain degree to which I could care less what the hell happens to this bastard. He's made it clear enough that he has no sense of responsibility to anything but his own ego. Cool. Let him hide in the Ecuadorian embassy for the rest of his life. My ONLY concern is for the letter of the law. There are a lot of people who I am more concerned about than Assange. Like nearly all of them.

That's my honest take on this.

8 funky chicken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:07:53pm

re: #7 SanFranciscoZionist

there is a certain degree to which I could care less what the hell happens to this bastard. He's made it clear enough that he has no sense of responsibility to anything but his own ego. Cool. Let him hide in the Ecuadorian embassy for the rest of his life.

amen

9 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:37:29pm

re: #7 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm of two minds. The issue of whether his legal right are being respected is important, and I seriously doubt that Sweden normally pursues rape cases with no aggravating factors to quite this extent. So to the extent that he is being pursued in any way illegally--as opposed to extraordinarily--I am certainly concerned.

But while I won't excuse bad behavior by state actors to the extent that I would for purposes of getting the likes of Bin Laden, there is a certain degree to which I could care less what the hell happens to this bastard. He's made it clear enough that he has no sense of responsibility to anything but his own ego. Cool. Let him hide in the Ecuadorian embassy for the rest of his life. My ONLY concern is for the letter of the law. There are a lot of people who I am more concerned about than Assange. Like nearly all of them.

That's my honest take on this.

Oh yes, he flunks the creep factor.

However, I would put him at less creepy than Greg Peterson of Utah.

Now, Peterson has probably not gotten any informants killed.

10 Flavia  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:39:23pm

re: #2 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I am uncomfortable with people referring to the Swedish charges as "rape." He failed to use a condom with a woman who had asked him to use one. Ungentlemanly.

I am uncomfortable with rape being called merely "surprise sex". EXCUSE ME?? (that last bit is actually directed at the Swedes, not you, because that's one of the charges listed. WHAT?)

However, when a person says "I want you to wear a condom," how can anyone interpret that as to mean anything but "I do not want to have sex with you if you don't"? How can anyone interpret that as permission to have sex anyway?

(Are you sure you just want to go with a mere "ungentlemanly" when the consequences of unprotected sex can be dangerous, or life altering??)

11 mr.JA  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 3:01:57am

re: #4 Daniel Ballard

Repeated from a thread earlier

The issue I have with Assange is the harm done to good works that must also remain secret. He has this naive assumption that if there were no secrets the world would be wonderful. WRONG. If the west had no military or strategic goals the world would be far better off. Wrong again.

His biggest flaw however is that smug certainty the he knows better than all the rest of us in these matters. Has no fear of consequences for others from his actions.

Disagree. The world would probably be better off, but the WEST would be worst off if there weren't any secrets and strategic goals. If the resource-wars are clear to everyone, people in the middle-east and africa would have kicked-out the west a long time ago.
Yes, that would harm our lifestyle, and would mean that we couldn't buy ipads and whatever, but it would also mean that the resources on this world are spend in a little less west-egocentric way. Do you really think that the presence of the US in the middle east, north-africa, Iraq, Kuweit, pakistan and afganistan have nothing to do with resources and the interests of America in obtaining those resources? Please...

12 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 5:29:22am

re: #11 mr.JA

1st Problem with that logic: Kuwait already understands we're only there because they have oil and they still want us there.

2nd Problem: If we were in Afghanistan with resource extraction as a goal, we'd behave differently. We wouldn't be concerned with local corruption unless it impeded extraction effects and the Inspectors General of various agencies would not get involved when they found companies hosting rape-parties for local bigwigs. It would all be about getting the mines open and the natural gas wells drilled. Afghanistan does have shale, but it cheaper to frack within the US right now. Mountaintop removal for shale extraction isn't possible there, due to the lack of railroads.

13 Destro  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 6:14:03am

re: #3 goddamnedfrank

If it's actually considered rape in Sweden then I won't quibble with the term. It's definitely creepy, fucked up behavior.

Right now he faces no charges in the US, DOJ prosecutors are playing their cards very close to the vest.

It is a sexual related charge unique to Sweden. So there is no American or British equivalent in law.

In fact Assange if I recall tried to get the warrant squashed in the UK because he said he is wanted for question for something that i snot even a crime in the UK.

14 Destro  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 6:18:23am

re: #10 Flavia

I am uncomfortable with rape being called merely "surprise sex". EXCUSE ME?? (that last bit is actually directed at the Swedes, not you, because that's one of the charges listed. WHAT?)

However, when a person says "I want you to wear a condom," how can anyone interpret that as to mean anything but "I do not want to have sex with you if you don't"? How can anyone interpret that as permission to have sex anyway?

(Are you sure you just want to go with a mere "ungentlemanly" when the consequences of unprotected sex can be dangerous, or life altering??)

She was sleeping and he initiated the sex or so she claims. Because Americans have a different criminal statue the Swedish law regarding this has no direct correlation with American criminal statues.

The Slate article below states incorrectly that Assange was "charged" but the rest of the article tries to explain what the Swedish law is all about.

[Link: www.slate.com...]

Is "Sex by Surprise" Illegal in the United States?

How would the alleged Swedish sex crimes of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange fare in an American court?

These charges allegedly stem from consensual sexual encounters with two separate women that became nonconsensual at some point during the act.

Assange might be in the clear if his alleged activities took place in the United States (and if no violence was involved). But in some states, lack of consent can by itself serve as the basis for a rape charge. The exact circumstances under which a woman might revoke her consent varies: In Illinois, for example, it is considered rape if a woman says "no" at any time during sex and her partner does not stop. Other states are vague on the question of whether someone can change her mind after penetration has occurred. And some courts have been very clear that consent is locked in once intercourse has begun.

15 Destro  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 6:54:30am

re: #12 Dark_Falcon

1st Problem with that logic: Kuwait already understands we're only there because they have oil and they still want us there.

2nd Problem: If we were in Afghanistan with resource extraction as a goal, we'd behave differently. We wouldn't be concerned with local corruption unless it impeded extraction effects and the Inspectors General of various agencies would not get involved when they found companies hosting rape-parties for local bigwigs. It would all be about getting the mines open and the natural gas wells drilled. Afghanistan does have shale, but it cheaper to frack within the US right now. Mountaintop removal for shale extraction isn't possible there, due to the lack of railroads.

We are in Afghanistan because we had the worst president in American history in the last 100 years. His name is GW Bush and he was president for 8 soul crushing years.

16 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 7:04:47am

re: #14 Destro

And some courts have been very clear that consent is locked in once intercourse has begun.

Which is an utter travesty.


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Jack Klatt - Highway Lines (Live at Radio Heartland)Jack Klatt performs 'Highway Lines' from his 2019 album, 'It Ain't The Same,' live in the studio of Radio Heartland at The Current.
Thanos
22 hours, 26 minutes ago
Views: 139 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
Brittany Howard Performing ‘13th Century Metal’ Live on KCRW Brittany Howard's solo debut album Jaime puts her powerhouse vocals on full display. It also takes us front and center to her very personal journey of loss, love and self-discovery. We're thrilled to welcome her back to KCRW to ...
Thanos
2 days, 16 hours ago
Views: 228 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
(15) Rodrigo Y Gabriela - Electric Soul (Live on KEXP) kexp.org presents Rodrigo y Gabriela performing "Electric Soul" live in the KEXP gathering space. Recorded July 14, 2019. Host: Stevie ZoomAudio Engineers: Kessiah Gordon & Kevin SuggsAudio Mixer: David MarchantCameras: Jim Beckmann, Alaia D'Alessandro, Luke Knecht & Justin WIlmoreEditor: ...
Thanos
2 days, 16 hours ago
Views: 239 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
Fresh Air (Remastered) Quicksilver Messenger Service Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group Fresh Air (Remastered) · Quicksilver Messenger Service Classic Masters ℗ 2001 Capitol Records, LLC Released on: 2007-01-01 Producer: Quicksilver Messenger ServiceStudio Personnel, Mastering Engineer: Robert VosgienComposer: Jesse Oris Farrow Auto-generated by YouTube. ...
Thanos
2 days, 16 hours ago
Views: 255 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
Jon Anderson - Song of SevenFrom the 1980 album "Song of Seven".
Thanos
4 days, 22 hours ago
Views: 291 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 191006 Today we have to take a few steps back in explanation. The pond is going to have three levels. Sort of an upside down ziggurat. The lowest level, in the center we call ‘the channel’. After the liner is ...
DangerMan
6 days, 20 hours ago
Views: 417 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Jon Anderson - Change We MustFrom the 1994 album "Change We Must".
Thanos
1 week, 1 day ago
Views: 495 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
North Mississippi Allstars - ‘Drunk Outdoors’ [Audio Only]From the album 'Up and Rolling,' available October 4, 2019: geni.us
Thanos
1 week, 2 days ago
Views: 463 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Dr. Demento & John Cafiero - What’s in My Bag? Dr. Demento and John Cafiero go shopping at Amoeba Music in Los Angeles. Check out their picks:Cal Stewart - Uncle Josh's Letter from Home (78) Spike Jones - Ugga Ugga Boo Ugga Boo Boo Ugga (78) Johnny Otis Orchestra ...
Thanos
2 weeks ago
Views: 795 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 13 • Share to Facebook
Kelly Finnigan & the Atonements - I Don’t Wanna Wait (Live on KEXP) kexp.org presents Kelly Finnigan & The Atonements performing "I Don't Wanna Wait" live in the KEXP studio. Recorded July 11, 2019. Host: MorganAudio Engineer: Julian MartlewCameras: Jim Beckmann, Alaia D'Alessandro, Luke Knecht & Justin WilmoreEditor: Scott Holpainen kexp.orgkellyfinnigan.com ...
Thanos
2 weeks ago
Views: 566 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook