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1 Destro  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:16:29am

Have you ever wondered why there are never any Palestinian demonstrations against the building of the Israeli settlements? Can you imagine the PR value of a hundred little blue eyed school girls, sitting in the road, shaking in terror as they blocked bulldozers?

Or maybe because Israeli forces will shoot them or run them over with a bulldozer?

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

Mahmoud Zakut was shot dead when dozens of youths walked towards the border fence with Israel on Friday afternoon in spite of attempts by Hamas police to stop them, witnesses told the AFP news agency.

[Link: rachelcorriefoundation.org...]

Rachel Corrie was a 23-year-old American peace activist from Olympia, Washington, who was crushed to death by an Israeli bulldozer on 16 March 2003, while undertaking nonviolent direct action to protect the home of a Palestinian family from demolition.

2 Bob Levin  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:37:24am

Suicide bombers are afraid to target settlements because they are afraid of getting hurt? Killed?

Expected Answer: The quote is about demonstrations.

Natural Reply: Read the article entire section. It's about suicide bombers and their cultural veneration.

That's my one comment. Bye.

3 sliv_the_eli  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 11:47:12am

re: #1 Destro

Down-ding for your usual lack of concern or care for factual accuracy, to say nothing of your contemptible accusation that Israeli troops would intentionally target and attempt to kill school-age children.

As for your chosen exemplary heroes, one need only take a look at the photo accompanying the BBC article to which you link to understand the implicity falsity of your statement. Mahmoud Zakut was one of a number of people who, in defiance of even the Hamas authorities, approached the border fence between the Gaza Strip and Israel proper during a riot that had the avowed intention of breaking through the fence, just as had been done on the Lebanese border and along the armistice line with Syria during Land Day riots the previous year.

As for Rachel Corrie, her tragic death was a result of her own boundless Israel-hatred and stupidity that caused her to place herself in a combat zone and in the path of an armored bulldozer from which the driver has only limited visibility.

Neither Zakout nor Corrie supports your thesis or accusation. Then again, the disconnect between facts/reality and your opinions has never stopped you before. I doubt it will in the future.

4 researchok  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 12:11:31pm

re: #1 Destro

The first incident you linked to was a border confrontation.

Rachel Corrie was hardly an innocent bystander she was a provocateur, at best. And what happened was an accident.

So let's sum up- you aren't being truthful- again.

As I noted earlier, you just can't help yourself, can you?

Please, feel free to respond and dig yourself a deeper hole.

5 Destro  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 2:34:38pm

re: #4 researchok

The first incident you linked to was a border confrontation.

Rachel Corrie was hardly an innocent bystander she was a provocateur, at best. And what happened was an accident.

So let's sum up- you aren't being truthful- again.

As I noted earlier, you just can't help yourself, can you?

Please, feel free to respond and dig yourself a deeper hole.

Being a protester is being a provocateur!!!! Civil disobedience???

The so called "border confrontation" was unarmed protesters marching. The end result was many being shot down and some killed.

So there is your answer, if protesters march on to the Israeli illegal settlement (occupied territory can't be settled per international law - Israel acknowledges the West Bank as occupied territory) border or blocks a bulldozer we can extrapolate they will be shot at or run over based on past experiences.

6 Destro  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 2:40:11pm

re: #3 sliv_the_eli

Mahmoud Zakut was one of a number of people who, in defiance of even the Hamas authorities, approached the border fence between the Gaza Strip and Israel proper during a riot that had the avowed intention of breaking through the fence

You mean the Southern police in Alabama should have also shot and killed civil rights protesters when they ignored police barricades? It's called civil disobedience. The article is asking why the Palestinians don't do it so often. See Rachel Corrie, who was killed practicing civil disobedience in a supposed democracy.

7 Destro  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 2:52:46pm

Neither Zakout nor Corrie supports your thesis or accusation. Then again, the disconnect between facts/reality and your opinions has never stopped you before. I doubt it will in the future.

So you accept this dingbats thesis that the reason there are never any Palestinian demonstrations against the building of the Israeli settlements it's because the Palestianian Authority views Israeli settlements as a job program?

See below. So yea, I am saying the Israeli settlers would kill Palestianian protestors on sight and then have their American shills run flak for them.

Like you.

[Link: articles.cnn.com...]

Israeli settlers burn Palestinian home, cars

Israeli settlers damaged cars and tried to burn down a house in Palestinian villages in the West Bank Monday night and Tuesday, police told CNN. The actions followed removal of three illegal shacks in a Jewish settlement.

These incidents are what some Israelis call "price tag" actions: Any activity against settlements and outposts is met by violence against Palestinian property.

Israeli police removed three illegal shacks Monday in the Jewish outpost of Havat Gilad. Police and civil administration representatives were stoned by the settlers on the scene. Eight people were arrested in the incident, Israeli police spokesman Mickey Rosenfeld said.

8 researchok  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 3:59:24pm

re: #5 Destro

As I noted the other day, 'pivot and attack' just won't work. Why you insist on highlighting both yur intellectual ethical shortcomings are most curtious.

The article I wrote had nothing to do with settlers, per se, but rather protest by Palestinians in attempts to stop their construction.

You can pretend otherwise but anyone reading the article would come to that conclusion after the first paragraph or so.

Once again, you have been less than truthful and once again, you've dug yourself another hole. Why do you suppose that is? What do you think it is that compels you to dishonest? What is it do you think that drives that dysfunctional pathology?

I understand you are a 'one trick pony' but the pivot and attack mode of argument has long been discredited. It is an effective tactic for those easily distracted but anyone with even a modicum of rational argument skills and critical thinking skills laughs or scoffs at the childish tactics.

Also, in yet another display of silly pivot and attack type of argument, you equate my article which dealt with protests against the settlements with protests against the barricade. Further, the Rachel Corrie debacle was had it origins in a house demolition situation, not in a protest against settlements..

Once again, you've been caught in an attempt to deliberately mislead.

I must admit, it is amusing to me to watch you attempt to a) justify your previous fraudulent remarks and b) watch you attempt to find more false premises to make your point.

Let me give you the opportunity to paraphrase a previous remark

One of the symptoms that gives you away as a someone with a PD (or possible BPD) is your need to have the last word and the need to be smarter than anyone who might question or challenge you.

It may not be relevant, germane or even coherent, but you have to the last word. In your mind that somehow legitimizes your view no matter how uninformed or inappropriate (your recent remarks re terror victims was astonishing in it's callousness. A healthy person would have said, 'I'm sorry that happened- that is a terrible tragedy'). You could have gone on to make your point but your lack of decency and empathy really isn't surprising. In your mind, blaming the victim is perfectly acceptable,

It is quite interesting to see you constantly 'move the goalposts' or attempt to change the subject when confronted with someone who makes a more cogent argument. A healthy person would say, 'I didn't know that, I need to think about that' or 'I was wrong. I stand corrected'. You are emotionally incapable of doing that. You may make a show of doing that every now and then (the emphasis on a very public show of false humility) but you don't talk to people- you talk down to or at them.

And I haven't even touched the control issues.

I have no doubt you will not address the issues I have raised in previous comments but instead will find away to redefine the conversation and/or attack me- which will only prove my point.

Sometimes it is just better to move on. You'll figure that out someday- though that is unlikely in the near future.

In the meantime, it is fascinating to watch

Keep looking- I suppose there may be one or two examples of concerted protests again the settlers over the years.

Maybe- it's possible.

9 Destro  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:06:39pm

re: #8 researchok

You keep claiming I pivot and attack but I have been on subject throughout this absurd post of yours, researchok.

Regarding your absurd question: Have you ever wondered why there are never any Palestinian demonstrations against the building of the Israeli settlements?

No, because they happen all the time:

Palestinians together with international solidarity activists mocked the IOF (Israeli Occupation Force) who call themselves the IDF (Israeli 'Dancing' Force?) by staging a dance protest in the Old City on July 10th before the weekly Saturday demonstration.

As a response to the infamous youtube video of soldiers dancing near the illegal settlement of Tel-Rumeida, three dancers took the role of soldiers and searched and arrested three Palestinians. There are around 16 check points that severely limit the movement of Palestinians in the Israeli military controlled area of Hebron. Palestinian residents also face daily attacks and harassment from soldiers and extremist, fanatical settlers who are often armed.

The demonstrators then marched through the Old City protesting against the closure of Shuhada street. Soldiers with M-16 rifles were seen kicking and hitting some of the international protestors.

Israeli activists gave speeches in Hebrew aimed at soldiers and settlers. One settler living in a house from which Palestinians were evicted threw water down on protestors but this did not dampen their spirits. Palestinians and international activists chanted together: "One two three four, occupation no more, five six seven eight, stop the killing, stop the hate."

Youtube can pull up much more.

So my question to you is why did you assume such protest did not happen? What makes you blind and ignorant to such protests and to deny they exist?

Pivot on that for a while.

10 researchok  Sat, Aug 18, 2012 2:56:07am

re: #9 Destro

More bullshit.

All the examples you previosuly cited had nothing to do with the original post.

So yes, you are inded doing what I said you were doing- pretending your 'pivot and attack' over so many replies were somehow relevant, and not deceitful.

They were not and again, highlight yor propensity for deceit.

The 'dance protest you refer to is nothing of the kind I mentioned, not even close. Where did they directly challenge the settlement buildings? Again, you insist on a distraction as being relevant. Of course, you are inadvertently bringing attention to deliberate violence against settlers. Recall the parents and three children aged between three months and 11 knifed to death in their West Bank home

And the 'Happen all the time'? Why would you continue draw attention to your own deceit? If there were protests which directly challenged the building of settlements happened 'all the time' there would be thousands upon thousands of such examples of such examples of the last couple of decades!

Also, even you must know the ISM is not a Palestinian movement. In fact, it is an organisation that has exploited the Palestinians to serve their own causes and agendas for many years.

Had you taken the trouble to do a search on this site about the ISM, Rachel Corrie and so on, you would realize the vacuousness of your own arguments.

Finally, I had to laugh at your attempt to change the subject once more with a silly question- a pivot and attack that only highlights your own lack of critical thinking skills and lack of even the most basic of argumentation skills.

Please, feel free to try and respond and dig yourself a deeper hole.

11 Destro  Sat, Aug 18, 2012 9:02:10am

re: #10 researchok

Have you ever wondered why there are never any Palestinian demonstrations against the building of the Israeli settlements? Can you imagine the PR value of a hundred little blue eyed school girls, sitting in the road, shaking in terror as they blocked bulldozers?

I don't know if Palestinians have a high rate of blue eyes but I think Rachel Corrie has blue eyes and she blocked a bulldozer in a non violent protest and was run over and killed.

How is that not related to the topic? Because it makes you seem like a bullshit artist?

I showed Palestians doing a non violent dance protest against the setllements in Hebron. Not relevant?

Here is another: Palestinians protest as Israeli settlers begin building (so I guess that makes your thesis laughable:

Here is another one:

Israeli settlers fire at Palestinians – video

Israelis from the West Bank settlement of Yitzhar fire at Palestinians from the town of Asira al-Qibliya on Saturday. Fires seen burning in the background were lit by settlers, according to Israeli NGO B'Tselem. A 24-year-old Palestinian is shot in the face. He is later treated in hospital and recovering from his injuries, according to the NGO

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

12 researchok  Sat, Aug 18, 2012 11:41:26am

re: #11 Destro

More of your usual pivot and attack bullshit.

Where is the concerted effort to block construction I referred to?

Protest are easy- why not the direct confrontation? why after so mahy years of settlement construction there have so few attempts to directly thwart and impeded the construction?

As for second attempt at pivot and attack, do you have any idea who many examples of Palestinian acts of terror I can point to?

Of course, that has nothing to do with what we're talking about- direct attempts to impede construction- but since you brought up the topic if violence, how about the murder of Shalhevet Pass?

You have made quite clear by your remarks in the past these kind of things don't bother you. And that surprises no one.

In any event, once more you engage in pivot and attack bullshit- there have been very few attempts to impede the construction of settlements and to date, you have provided no example of that, only an attempt o change the nature of the conversation.

Utter failure on your part.

I do wonder how long your silly pivot and attack efforts will go one (You have continued to validate my earlier opinion- you cannot help yourself and insist on having the last word, even if that word only highlights your very deficient arguments). I would have thought you would latch on to my criticism of Israeli policy, but instead you revert to a knee jerk shame culture response

Most healthy people would not go to such great lengths to highlight their own intellectual inadequacies and obvious bigotries.

13 Destro  Sat, Aug 18, 2012 7:01:01pm

re: #12 researchok

This is what happens to Palestinain demonstrators in Israel's occupied territories:

An Israeli soldier is seen shooting an arrested and bound Palestinian in the leg with a plastic bullet, in a video released by an Israeli human rights group on Sunday.

and this:

Israeli Soldier Beats Up Civilian

and this:

Israeli Soldiers Attack Female Humanitarian Activists

14 researchok  Sat, Aug 18, 2012 7:03:46pm

More useless pivot and attack.

What does that have to do with the original post?

Try again. Feel free to embarrass yourself at will.

15 Bob Levin  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 10:40:49am

Support for the thesis. There is indeed symbiosis.


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