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This was before, several hours earlier. Anonymous Is Losing Its War Against Israel Israel's hospitals continue to treat Gazan patients Jordan in the dark over Egyptian gas cut Protesters in Jordan capital call for King to quit

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16 comments

1 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 20, 2012 8:19:09am

There's an app for that...bigotry.

2 Destro  Mon, Aug 20, 2012 8:24:36am

How about instead of trying to get the sale of this book stopped (Amazon kindle editions sell for the same .99 it seems) how about having them attach this free kindle book: "The myth of the Jewish menace in world affairs or, The truth about the forged protocols of the elders of Zion [Kindle Edition]"

This way no censorship is offered and at no extra cost you get a book exposing it.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]


The more you ban something the more 'forbidden fruit' it becomes.

3 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Aug 20, 2012 9:52:54am

I'm actually a little bit torn on this - on the one hand I am kinda on the side of the first amendment and also believe in giving bigots the opportunity to expose themselves for all to see - but on the other hand, I can totally see the argument that we should drive such obvious bigotry so far underground that those who indulge in it are made painfully aware of the extent of their abnormality by having to grope beneath the lowest counter in society to obtain it's sources. Of course, doing so will only reaffirm in the bigots mind the reality of the conspiracy against "the troof"...

4 Bob Levin  Mon, Aug 20, 2012 10:15:05am

re: #2 Destro

re: #3 Aye Pod

This is the crux of the problem. For me, I begin by asking how far down within a person does this bigotry go? In other words, would the app be teaching, or would it be feeding a deep hunger? I ask, but it doesn't mean I have an answer. I am presently leaning towards it feeding a deep hunger.

What do you do if in fact the latter is true? This is the question. In this particular case, one would hope that Apple just refuses to sell it. Let the hungry go somewhere else for this particular meal. But on a more macro level, or incredibly micro level (they join sometimes), there isn't an answer.

To get an answer would require Western Civ to completely redo the notion of what makes up a person. Right now, I think we're doing a slightly more sophisticated version of Id, Ego, Superego, using a MRI instead of a couch. Not enough progress. This paradigm is not adequate.

This weekend, on this site, there were pictures of a demonstration in Canada. If there was a moment where one could intervene on an individual level with each of those folks, that moment passed long ago. But these are just some of the questions that should have been asked when talking about the lessons of the Holocaust. And these questions were not asked. Too frightened of what the answers might be. That's just my observation.

And of course, the real answers would apply universally. Never Again means never again for everyone.

5 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Aug 20, 2012 10:30:21am

re: #4 Bob Levin

I was looking forward to reading your reply , but honestly, I have no idea what you were talking about there.

6 Bob Levin  Mon, Aug 20, 2012 10:46:09am

re: #5 Aye Pod

I was asking, where does the racism come from? Is it taught, or is it something deeper?

If it's deeper, then society has to ask questions it hasn't been asking. Because we obviously aren't getting any answers. The bigotry is still like a contagion.

There's this old joke about a guy, call him Sam, who's lost his car keys. He's looking for the keys on a lighted parking lot. It's the dead of night. Another guy comes up and asks what the problem is, then he asks where did he drop the keys? Sam says that I lost the keys in that vacant lot across the street. Then why look here? The light's better here.

That's how society is approaching the problem. We keep looking in the same places for answers, and the answers are somewhere else. We keep recycling the same solutions--when the solutions clearly haven't worked.

So, what's most effective? Stopping Apple from selling the app, or somehow getting the bigots to crawl back under the rock? Both of you are correct, the best answer isn't there. And that's because our understanding of the human pysche or soul or self, or whatever is just not adequate for this problem to be solved.

The answer will require a drastic change in our going-on-two century old notion of who we are.

7 ErikJ76  Mon, Aug 20, 2012 11:14:18am

re: #3 Aye Pod

I'm actually a little bit torn on this - on the one hand I am kinda on the side of the first amendment and also believe in giving bigots the opportunity to expose themselves for all to see - but on the other hand, I can totally see the argument that we should drive such obvious bigotry so far underground that those who indulge in it are made painfully aware of the extent of their abnormality by having to grope beneath the lowest counter in society to obtain it's sources. Of course, doing so will only reaffirm in the bigots mind the reality of the conspiracy against "the troof"...

The First Amendment doesn't apply here, if Apple denies people from publishing 'Protocols of the Elders' apps they aren't denying them their first amendment rights.

Furthermore, Apple per-screens apps, allowing some apps and denying others, so Apple should get called on for allowing anti-semitic apps.

They actively looked at the app and allowed it into the AppStore.

8 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Aug 20, 2012 11:32:29am

re: #6 Bob Levin

I was asking, where does the racism come from? Is it taught, or is it something deeper?

If it's deeper, then society has to ask questions it hasn't been asking. Because we obviously aren't getting any answers. The bigotry is still like a contagion.

There's this old joke about a guy, call him Sam, who's lost his car keys. He's looking for the keys on a lighted parking lot. It's the dead of night. Another guy comes up and asks what the problem is, then he asks where did he drop the keys? Sam says that I lost the keys in that vacant lot across the street. Then why look here? The light's better here.

That's how society is approaching the problem. We keep looking in the same places for answers, and the answers are somewhere else. We keep recycling the same solutions--when the solutions clearly haven't worked.

So, what's most effective? Stopping Apple from selling the app, or somehow getting the bigots to crawl back under the rock? Both of you are correct, the best answer isn't there. And that's because our understanding of the human pysche or soul or self, or whatever is just not adequate for this problem to be solved.

The answer will require a drastic change in our going-on-two century old notion of who we are.

Bigotry is to some extent hard wired, but it can be either banished/minimised or augmented by upbringing and culture. When bigots are under a rock, they're not pushing the Overton window.

9 Destro  Mon, Aug 20, 2012 11:39:16am

re: #5 Aye Pod

I was looking forward to reading your reply , but honestly, I have no idea what you were talking about there.

re: #6 Bob Levin

To be honest I have no idea what Bob here goes on about either. I honestly don't mean that as an insult.

Bob has accused me of being a racist David Duke follower and some how also pushing the Protocols wittingly or unwittingly and let me see - also called me a backwoods redneck from the KKK and that my left wing leanings really mean I am a right winger somehow.

Bob Levin, seems to have accused so many on here of being influenced by this fucking book that I still doubt his acumen.

Lastly, What do you mean by App? If an App, Apple SHOULD ban it and COULD ban it without violating anyone's right. They are picky about what apps are available on their phones (shaking baby game was banned).

Do you mean this book is for sale on Itunes? That is tricky to ban and crosses over into censorship though my solution to bundle the sales (at no extra cost to purchaser whomever they are - scholars or bigots) is nifty and fights bigotry with knowledge.

10 Destro  Mon, Aug 20, 2012 11:41:24am

re: #7 ErikJ76

Yea, the APP thing threw me off - I was wondering if the person who wrote this meant itunes? My elderly parents call everything cell phone or computer related an "app" these days.

They bought a book on Kindle and she called the purchase an "app" "I bough a new app today to read - she meant a e-book.

11 Bob Levin  Mon, Aug 20, 2012 12:04:08pm

re: #9 Destro

Four people, and you know it, and I can name them. What would you call the folks who showed up at that rally, enlightened thinkers?

You can say what names I've called you, and I did, but you brought up some of the canards of the Protocols, and you've painted me as the guy in the cartoon in the third picture. Now I'm not in the mood to get into a personal attack conversation with you. I'm willing to erase the board and start over.

But I will stand by my statement that, historically, the Protocols are the equivalent of a loaded weapon. That's my criteria. If you repeat the canards of the Protocols, you can't be a socialist.

I don't know the details about Apple that you're talking about, I just re-posted the article.

I'm saying that in order to really eliminate racism, our culture has to drastically re-think our definition of the nature of human beings. In my opinion, it is presently quite primitive. Right now, it's the equivalent of knowing only a few things about the human body, and completely lacking the awareness that the immune system exists.

12 Destro  Mon, Aug 20, 2012 12:08:44pm

re: #11 Bob Levin

Four people, and you know it, and I can name them. What would you call the folks who showed up at that rally, enlightened thinkers?

You can say what names I've called you, and I did, but you brought up some of the canards of the Protocols, and you've painted me as the guy in the cartoon in the third picture. Now I'm not in the mood to get into a personal attack conversation with you. I'm willing to erase the board and start over.

But I will stand by my statement that, historically, the Protocols are the equivalent of a loaded weapon. That's my criteria. If you repeat the canards of the Protocols, you can't be a socialist.

I don't know the details about Apple that you're talking about, I just re-posted the article.

I'm saying that in order to really eliminate racism, our culture has to drastically re-think our definition of the nature of human beings. In my opinion, it is presently quite primitive. Right now, it's the equivalent of knowing only a few things about the human body, and completely lacking the awareness that the immune system exists.

I brought up ZERO canards from the Protocols, you fucking idiot. Not one comment of mine hinted at anything remotely like or influenced by the Protocols. Douchebag.

13 ckkatz  Mon, Aug 20, 2012 1:45:20pm

re: #3 Aye Pod
re: #4 Bob Levin

Three thoughts:

First, it is true that you will not eliminate hate by eliminating the protocols. In the same way, laws have not yet eliminated crime in human history either. Does that mean we should just give up, and close down the courts and jails?

Second, I don't see that Freedom of Speech is involved. We are not talking about eliminating the protocols and are not demanding that the government censor the book. We are talking about lobbying a private corporation to stop selling the book as one of its products.

Finally, I don't see how you are protecting someone else's freedom of speech by silencing yourself. It seems to me that you have the right to express your views to Apple.

14 researchok  Tue, Aug 21, 2012 12:14:15pm

re: #9 Destro

What does Bob's opinion of you have to do with Apple and The Protocols? He didn't speak of David Duke the KKK and so on. You made those references.

This whole criticism of Bob is no more than yet another tired 'pivot and attack' response.

Bob Levin's opinion of you in this context is neither germane or relevant to his post.

This isn't about you.

Now, pivot and attack.

15 Destro  Tue, Aug 21, 2012 8:09:20pm

re: #14 researchok

Bob did bring those up on another thread and he did call me/accuse me of said relations and I will remind him of his nuttiness every chance I get if in topic. So now you know.

16 Bob Levin  Tue, Aug 21, 2012 10:55:08pm

I just read the Karsh thread. Show's over, D. That uber-liberal mask is off. The discontented American mask is off. And you're looking like a Payday Candy Bar.


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