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1 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 21, 2012 1:58:30pm

Someone who is living off their investments is not dependent on the government. I'm not sure how you made that logical leap.

2 Destro  Fri, Sep 21, 2012 2:03:32pm

re: #1 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Someone who is living off their investments is not dependent on the government. I'm not sure how you made that logical leap.

Romney is in the 47% that does not pay INCOME TAX: These are people who pay no income tax, 47% of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn’t connect. So he’ll (President Obama) be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean, that’s what they sell every four years. And so my job is not to worry about those people. I’ll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.

3 lostlakehiker  Fri, Sep 21, 2012 2:52:49pm

Taxable capital gains are income. They're taxed at a different rate, but it's still income. You report them on your federal income tax return, and you pay an income tax to the federal government because you had income. If you win a lottery, that's also income, even though there isn't any question of its being earned or in some way merited. And it's taxed. As income.

The difference is that capital gains, the long term ones that are taxable at the lower rate, are measured with long-ago dollars as inputs, and current, depreciated dollars, as output. Ideally, capital gains would be indexed for inflation, and then taxed like any other income. Instead, we just tax them at a lower rate, in the hope that it'll come out in the wash. Or in the hope that it will induce people to invest, because capital is one of the ingredients of an advanced technical civilization.

Somebody who has modest capital gains on a stock held for a long time has not had any income at all, but a loss, and is taxed anyhow. Somebody who has enjoyed rapid growth in a stock held for just two years has not seen much inflation and with a more accurate tax law would pay nearly the same rate as ordinary income is taxed at. Most people fall somewhere in the middle.

4 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 21, 2012 2:57:09pm

re: #3 lostlakehiker

Taxable capital gains are income. They're taxed at a different rate, but it's still income. You report them on your federal income tax return, and you pay an income tax to the federal government because you had income. If you win a lottery, that's also income, even though there isn't any question of its being earned or in some way merited. And it's taxed. As income.

The difference is that capital gains, the long term ones that are taxable at the lower rate, are measured with long-ago dollars as inputs, and current, depreciated dollars, as output. Ideally, capital gains would be indexed for inflation, and then taxed like any other income. Instead, we just tax them at a lower rate, in the hope that it'll come out in the wash. Or in the hope that it will induce people to invest, because capital is one of the ingredients of an advanced technical civilization.

Somebody who has modest capital gains on a stock held for a long time has not had any income at all, but a loss, and is taxed anyhow. Somebody who has enjoyed rapid growth in a stock held for just two years has not seen much inflation and with a more accurate tax law would pay nearly the same rate as ordinary income is taxed at. Most people fall somewhere in the middle.

Gene Wilder as Willy Wonka (to Destro): You LOSE, Sir!

Next time Destro, learn how the tax laws work before you make some big claim.

5 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 21, 2012 3:02:00pm

re: #1 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Someone who is living off their investments is not dependent on the government. I'm not sure how you made that logical leap.

I 'invested' my FICA tax in Social Security and a good chunk of my base pay into the Civil Service Retirement System. I've no doubt many of the 53% count me among the parasitic 47%.

6 Bob Dillon  Fri, Sep 21, 2012 3:02:40pm

re: #4 Dark_Falcon
re: #3 lostlakehiker

Your patience with those who waste others time with their ignorance is commendable.

7 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 21, 2012 3:07:12pm

re: #5 Decatur Deb

I 'invested' my FICA tax in Social Security and a good chunk of my base pay into the Civil Service Retirement System. I've no doubt many of the 53% count me among the parasitic 47%.

Yes, but they would be wrong. Even Romney's statement was not intended to include those receiving Social Security Retirement Benefits. So those advancing such a claim would be doing so out of ignorance and stupidity, and would be making a worse DERP than Mitt Romney.

8 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 21, 2012 3:18:46pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but they would be wrong. Even Romney's statement was not intended to include those receiving Social Security Retirement Benefits. So those advancing such a claim would be doing so out of ignorance and stupidity, and would be making a worse DERP than Mitt Romney.

And my federal tax is calculated as 'income', not capital gains.

9 Destro  Fri, Sep 21, 2012 3:19:31pm

re: #3 lostlakehiker

Social Security is also earned income.

10 philosophus invidius  Fri, Sep 21, 2012 3:43:09pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

I'm pretty sure that Destro was just joking. He is obviously aware that payroll taxes are more like mandatory insurance premiums.

11 Destro  Fri, Sep 21, 2012 3:44:07pm

re: #10 philosophus invidius

I'm pretty sure that Destro was just joking. He is obviously aware that payroll taxes are more like mandatory insurance premiums.

I was chiding Romney. It's fun. We should all do it.

12 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 22, 2012 10:01:38am

re: #5 Decatur Deb

I 'invested' my FICA tax in Social Security and a good chunk of my base pay into the Civil Service Retirement System. I've no doubt many of the 53% count me among the parasitic 47%.

I am the 53%, and I think you're swell!


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