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1 War On Music  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 9:21:16am

The other untold story: Israel worked with Arab nations to engineer the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries, and then completely bungled the transfer of Mizrahi Jews.

It's also important to note that the idea of Jews from Arab countries as refugees is a relatively recent notion. Calls to define Jews from Arab countries as refugees were made in the past, but back then, they were silenced by Israeli governments. It wasn't until the year 2000 that the campaign for the recognition of Jews from Arab countries as refugees was launched (by no other than President Bill Clinton). Prior to that, the idea of Jews from Arab countries as refugees was rejected, because (a) of the fear that such a declaration would reawaken what Israel had tried to erase and forget – the right of return; (b) a concern that Jews might submit compensation claims to Arab countries, and as a result – bring about lawsuits by Palestinians against Israel; and (c) because such a decision would have forced the state to update all of its history books, forming a new narrative according to which Mizrahi Jews didn’t come to Israel due to Zionism, but against their will.

It's really interesting that the meme of Mizrahi Jews as refugees has been pushed to hard by the Hasbara effort, in order to play Israel as the victim in order to excuse the fact that they continue to oppress Palestinians in the illegally occupied West Bank territories.

2 War On Music  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 9:24:52am

All as an attempt to show that the Jews who left Yemen, Iraq, Morocco, Egypt and other Arab countries were bigger victims than the Palestinian refugees, and as I guess prove that them a-rabs don't deserve any sympathy.

3 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 9:37:06am

re: #1 War On Music

The other untold story: Israel worked with Arab nations to engineer the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries, and then completely bungled the transfer of Mizrahi Jews.

It's also important to note that the idea of Jews from Arab countries as refugees is a relatively recent notion. Calls to define Jews from Arab countries as refugees were made in the past, but back then, they were silenced by Israeli governments.

Do you have any source for that assertion that's not a total hate site?

4 War On Music  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 9:43:17am

re: #3 Sheila Brovlofski

which assertion specifically?

5 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 9:47:49am

re: #4 War On Music

which assertion specifically?

This one:

Israel worked with Arab nations to engineer the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries

And especially this one:

It's also important to note that the idea of Jews from Arab countries as refugees is a relatively recent notion. Calls to define Jews from Arab countries as refugees were made in the past, but back then, they were silenced by Israeli governments.

6 War On Music  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 10:22:25am

For the first I would suggest: [Link: muse.jhu.edu...]

I would also suggest looking up information on Lavon Affair, where in the Israeli government committed false flag operations in order to create tension within Egypt within the Egyptian Jewish community in order so that they would emigrate.

For the second I would suggest: [Link: www.meforum.org...]

as a look into the long history of Ashkenazi racism and institutional state discrimination against the Mizrahi Jews which was only recently recognized by the Israeli Labor Party leader Ehud Barak when he made a high-profile apology to Oriental Jews in 1997. I would also suggest finding information on the Israeli Black Panthers and there fight for recognition.

----

I would also like to point out that the idea of Mizrahi as refugees is controversial within Mizrahi communities, who point out that many of them left voluntarily out of a commitment to religious Zionism without any problems from the arab states to which they left. Some do not like the fact that they are now being used as political pawns as a false equivalence between the former suffering of Jewish Arabs and the current suffering of Palestinian refugees. see: [Link: www.jpost.com...]

7 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 10:31:40am

re: #6 War On Music

I see you are engaging in the "pivot and attack" method of changing the subject and arguing from there instead of your original position. Is that because you couldn't find any sites you could link that wouldn't get you banned?

You claimed there was a conspiracy of Israel with the Arab countries to expel their Jewish populations (many of which, it should be noted, had existed there for over 2,000 years). Then you changed the subject to racism against the Mizrachi Jews by the Ashkenazi establishment which is a whole different issue.

First please prove your original assertion that there was a conspiracy by Israel to destroy 2,000-year-old Jewish communities.

8 researchok  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 10:58:37am

re: #6 War On Music

More bullshit

The Ashkenazi/Sephardi divide is very different from the issues you are attempting to raise.

In the end, the proof isd in the pudding. Poll after poll of Palestinians would rather live under Israeli rule by a wide margin

As is so often heard in the region, 'Better the hell of Israel than the paradise of Arafat.'

Deal with reality.

9 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:55:30pm

re: #8 researchok

More bullshit

The Ashkenazi/Sephardi divide is very different from the issues you are attempting to raise.

In the end, the proof isd in the pudding. Poll after poll of Palestinians would rather live under Israeli rule by a wide margin

As is so often heard in the region, 'Better the hell of Israel than the paradise of Arafat.'

Deal with reality.

He can't see reality clearly. Too much pivoting has left "War on Music Logic" so dizzy he literally cannot see reality.

10 War On Music  Wed, Sep 26, 2012 9:55:11am

re: #7 Sheila Brovlofski

you asked me to cite documents to show two assertions, one being that the Israeli government worked with and within Arab countries to being Jews from those countries into Israel, and the other being that the Israel government has been silent on the issue of Mizrahi Jews. I cite two scholarly journals, and for the second question one that points out that there has been official, institutional discrimination of Mizrahi Jews as one of the reasons why the Israeli government up until recently (for PR and opportunistic political reasons) has labeled this group of people as "refugees". Then you use the answer to my second question to answer the first question, and then accuse me of "pivoting and attacking" when in reality you've failed to see the two different answers.

I never said that there was a "conspiracy by Israel to destroy 2,000-year-old Jewish communities." Rather I said that Israel worked with, and promoted, the exodus of Jews from Arab counties. That there was coordination between American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee and Israel, the imam of Yemen, the British authorites, and the Jewish Agency. Not only that, but the Israel government actively promoted discord within Arab countries Jewish communities though false flag operations such as The Lavon affair (aka Operation Susannah or "The Bad Business") to make Arab countries undesirable for Jewish peoples there.

That is to say, the current PR campaign of the Israel government wishes to make it seem like there was only "push" factors in the decision to emigrate to Israel in order to make a false equivalence between former refugees and the current Palestinian refugees displaced by the Israeli Occupation. The reality is there was just as much "pull" factors to which Arab Jews voluntarily left there homes to make Aliyah, but that doesn't serve the narrative of victim-hood that Israel wants develop to counter the fact that they are not the victims, but they are the persecutor.

I call it out as opportunistic and immoral.

11 War On Music  Wed, Sep 26, 2012 10:04:47am

re: #8 researchok

The issue has nothing to do with Palestinians. It has everything to do with the false claim that Jews from Arab countries are refugees, a claim even those jews do not buy.

More importantly, if there are economic, political and social conditions that make life hard on people, of course they would choose to live somewhere wherein those conditions are lessened. What are the economic, political and social conditions impeditive to growth for Palestinians? Maybe it's an illegal military occupation of there land? The myriad of checkpoints, walls, ID checks, lack of control over the political process (in no vote in Area B or Area C and the bantustan of the PA)?

I realize that you consider Israel blameless, but the question is what is right.


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