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1 lostlakehiker  Wed, Sep 26, 2012 8:23:11am

It is perfectly consistent to back the NFL refs in their strike, and oppose the Chicago teachers in their strike.

The old consensus, expressed by FDR, was that there was no place in a democracy for public sector unions. His reason, which has been born out by later experience, was that public sector unions would work to capture their negotiating counterparties. This tends to subvert the bargaining process. Once the public's representative works for the union rather than the public, the very idea of a negotiation goes out the window. The cycle then begins: artificially high wages are channeled in part into campaign contributions, which help elect officials who will use taxpayer money to pay off the union, which will channel the money into their own campaigns. Upshot: the public pays taxes that circle the track and then get people elected who work more for the union than for the wider public.

Private sector union/management fights are fair fights. The union cannot elect new management, (and management cannot choose the union stewards for the union.) The NFL's negotiating stance has been, basically, that the pro refs it'd been using had no particularly unique skills and could be replaced by cheaper hires. The refs called their bluff. The new set of refs is trying its best but hasn't the skills to properly regulate the game. The debate is over, if not the argument. The refs won the debate so the NFL should come around and pay what the experiment has proved they're worth.

2 Destro  Wed, Sep 26, 2012 8:31:31am

re: #1 lostlakehiker

The United States Constitution explicitly provides for 'the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances'" in the First Amendment. Unions, public or private sector is an expression of this protected right.

A trade union is a way of exercising freedom of assembly and freedom of association.

You don't lose your right because of a paycheck's origin.

3 Dustoff848  Wed, Sep 26, 2012 8:55:15am

One minor point. The Referees are "Locked Out" and not 'On Strike'.

4 909Ghazis  Wed, Sep 26, 2012 9:10:50am

The NFL is only doing this for the Integrity of The Game. Yep. And I'm Prince Charming. I'll bet Mitt never said he like to see some factories come back his firm cannibalized/destroyed/looted/shut. Priorities. He likes football. Employees, not that much.

5 Destro  Wed, Sep 26, 2012 9:52:05am

re: #4 Blue Point Crab

The NFL is only doing this for the Integrity of The Game. Yep. And I'm Prince Charming. I'll bet Mitt never said he like to see some factories come back his firm cannibalized/destroyed/looted/shut. Priorities. He likes football. Employees, not that much.

It has to do with the way the GOP divides up the world.

For example, teacher's unions are attacked by conservatives - I guess because they are seen as peace loving, hippie tree huggers who like 'reading' and stuff.

But police and firefighter unions are not subject to this attack by conservatives and in this case the uniformed refs for the NFL.

It kind of works that way on the federal level for the conservatives - they will cut spending on social programs - but raise spending on the military.

NFL refs, cops, firemen, military, all wear uniforms. I would love to make a joke on how the GOP has a uniform fetish but it has to do with conservatives pretending they are the tough, he-man, rifle shooting party and their base is composed of older white guys who get off on such imagery - and if that means conservatives attack all unions and govt spending except those of "manly" uniformed services then so be it, cognitive dissonance be damned.

6 909Ghazis  Wed, Sep 26, 2012 10:04:05am

re: #5 Destro

I think if you look you will find the GOP has done the same Union busting tactics on police and firemen. The GOP has never met a Union it hasn't tried to kill.

7 Destro  Wed, Sep 26, 2012 11:53:15am

re: #6 Blue Point Crab

I think if you look you will find the GOP has done the same Union busting tactics on police and firemen. The GOP has never met a Union it hasn't tried to kill.

Yes, but like in Wisconsin, it first goes after the teacher's union - swears it is leaving cops and firemen out of it then when no one is looking will get collective bargaining away from them as well.

8 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 26, 2012 12:19:21pm

re: #1 lostlakehiker

It is perfectly consistent to back the NFL refs in their strike, and oppose the Chicago teachers in their strike.

The old consensus, expressed by FDR, was that there was no place in a democracy for public sector unions. His reason, which has been born out by later experience, was that public sector unions would work to capture their negotiating counterparties. This tends to subvert the bargaining process. Once the public's representative works for the union rather than the public, the very idea of a negotiation goes out the window. The cycle then begins: artificially high wages are channeled in part into campaign contributions, which help elect officials who will use taxpayer money to pay off the union, which will channel the money into their own campaigns. Upshot: the public pays taxes that circle the track and then get people elected who work more for the union than for the wider public.

Private sector union/management fights are fair fights. The union cannot elect new management, (and management cannot choose the union stewards for the union.) The NFL's negotiating stance has been, basically, that the pro refs it'd been using had no particularly unique skills and could be replaced by cheaper hires. The refs called their bluff. The new set of refs is trying its best but hasn't the skills to properly regulate the game. The debate is over, if not the argument. The refs won the debate so the NFL should come around and pay what the experiment has proved they're worth.

Just so! A private sector union like the one for NFL referees is fine, but government unions, which can elect their bosses, are inherently problematic. Scott Walker's efforts to bust such unions is just and proper.

9 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 26, 2012 2:19:18pm

re: #8 Dark_Falcon

Just so! A private sector union like the one for NFL referees is fine, but government unions, which can elect their bosses, are inherently problematic. Scott Walker's efforts to bust such unions is just and proper.

Unions can't elect their bosses. Other people vote too. For chrissake.


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