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1 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 2:28:33pm

It's way passed time for normal people of all faiths and races to band together and adopt a zero tolerance policy for religious fundamentalism of every kind.

2 Sophia77  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 3:57:36pm

Great. I suppose the planet we live on has no say in the matter?

3 nines09  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 4:18:34pm

Sure sounds like a cult to me. Must be fun being one of the kids in this 3-D Nightmare. We are all Gods Children. Except for them secular liberal bastards who would stop us from installing a Religious Government that suspiciously looks like Fascism with God on it's side.

4 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 5:12:28pm

re: #1 SpaceJesus

It's way passed time for normal people of all faiths and races to band together and adopt a zero tolerance policy for religious fundamentalism of every kind.

By doing what, limiting the number of children people can have? Giving them real dirty looks?

5 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 5:17:12pm

re: #4 SanFranciscoZionist

By doing what, limiting the number of children people can have? Giving them real dirty looks?

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what we can do to have a "zero tolerance policy" for religious fundamentalism that wouldn't also violate the historic US policy of religious tolerance.

6 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 6:45:56pm

re: #5 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what we can do to have a "zero tolerance policy" for religious fundamentalism that wouldn't also violate the historic US policy of religious tolerance.

They must be tolerated until they achieve the numbers needed to exterminate the tolerant.

Fortunately, we can rely on good old-fashioned human sinfulness to thwart their plans.

7 calochortus  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 7:10:41pm

The only little problem with these calculations about the number of children and grandchildren that will be produced is that a fair number of the kids won't actually want to have a dozen children, themselves. Most people don't. Catholics are a prime example of this fact since they use birth control at about the same percentage as the general population despite it being a significant sin.

8 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 7:35:27pm

re: #7 calochortus

The only little problem with these calculations about the number of children and grandchildren that will be produced is that a fair number of the kids won't actually want to have a dozen children, themselves. Most people don't. Catholics are a prime example of this fact since they use birth control at about the same percentage as the general population despite it being a significant sin.

The tragic decline in fertility among Irish Americans in the past couple of generations remains a sad mystery of science.

9 lostlakehiker  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 8:12:04pm

re: #7 calochortus

The only little problem with these calculations about the number of children and grandchildren that will be produced is that a fair number of the kids won't actually want to have a dozen children, themselves. Most people don't. Catholics are a prime example of this fact since they use birth control at about the same percentage as the general population despite it being a significant sin.

There's also a self-limiting side to all this: assume, against all odds, that defections from the movement are rare. Even so, such rapid expansion means that each child gets less parental investment. As the cult's numbers burgeon and resources become tight, [it's a Malthusian world] there won't be money for welfare. Parental investment will be the currency of survival, and runaway breeding will overshoot and collapse.

This is an ongoing Darwinian issue in any species, and in our own species, in any day and age. One billion Chinese cannot be wrong---high parental investment per child, with relatively low fecundity, is a viable reproductive strategy. Its opposite must have run into some such snag every time it was tried, whether through genetic differences or through cultural differences.

10 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 8:52:03pm

My general experience--and this is a generalization, I realize--is that people who have big families because they love it and love their babies and want this do well. People who have big families out of a sense of duty don't do as well.

Just my observation.

11 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 8:54:13pm

re: #9 lostlakehiker

There's also a self-limiting side to all this: assume, against all odds, that defections from the movement are rare. Even so, such rapid expansion means that each child gets less parental investment. As the cult's numbers burgeon and resources become tight, [it's a Malthusian world] there won't be money for welfare. Parental investment will be the currency of survival, and runaway breeding will overshoot and collapse.

This is an ongoing Darwinian issue in any species, and in our own species, in any day and age. One billion Chinese cannot be wrong---high parental investment per child, with relatively low fecundity, is a viable reproductive strategy. Its opposite must have run into some such snag every time it was tried, whether through genetic differences or through cultural differences.

What actually happens is that when Mom's having babies because she has to, not because she wants to, she tends to dump a bunch of responsibility on the oldest children. They grow up and don't have families because they're burnt out on child rearing at the ripe old age of 23.

It doesn't have to happen this way; my older sister and I were the first and second of seven, and we had six and five children, respectively, because we were expected to help around the house, but the babies were her responsibility. Also, she wasn't a particularly big housekeeper, so the chores were lightweight.

12 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 30, 2012 9:03:24pm

re: #4 SanFranciscoZionist

Nope. Their plan for creating a new subculture rises or falls on the education and socialization their children receive. The only way for them to achieve this is to home-school their kids where they can deny them education regarding reproductive health, science, and skeptical thinking skills.

13 Destro  Mon, Oct 1, 2012 12:40:39am

re: #12 SpaceJesus

Nope. Their plan for creating a new subculture rises or falls on the education and socialization their children receive. The only way for them to achieve this is to home-school their kids where they can deny them education regarding reproductive health, science, and skeptical thinking skills.

Homeschooling feels like a cult movement more than anything else. You want to get attacked at a right wing forum - question homeschooling.

14 Destro  Mon, Oct 1, 2012 12:48:28am

re: #8 SanFranciscoZionist

The tragic decline in fertility among Irish Americans in the past couple of generations remains a sad mystery of science.

It is no mystery. The cost of children is expensive in western society. Also, a consumerist lifestyle means the more kids you have the less stuff you can afford.

You can't afford a second new car for him and her if you have more than x number of kids. Kids college funds cut into vacation funds. Can't afford a second vacation home.

There was this show on HBO called "Girls" - I watched it - found it boring because it's about out of work hipsters in NYC. Overeducated and underemployed. Anyway, the mom and dad of this girl cut off their monetary support to their mid 20s daughter who has an English degree and no job skills. The reason the mom gives (both earn professor money) is that she deserves a vacation home on the lake.

So in this American society (and western nations in general) kids add a cost to life in that the more you have the less money you have to live a middle class lifestyle.

So to answer your question....if the Irish are having less kids it means they have entered the middle class.


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