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1 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:13:57am

Mark Steyn is a racist asshole.

2 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:15:30am

What a joke. William F. Buckley and Firing Line became famous by way of PBS. Had it not been for PBS most Americans would barely have heard of Buckley. By extension, NRO is a grandchild of this and PBS. Blowhards.

3 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:22:10am

I should downding you for putting up a link to NRO.
You know, some people can't afford cable, and some of us think the programs are of a better quality--for children as well as adults. Some schools even use PBS as another resource for instruction in the classroom.

Shameful.

4 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:23:29am

Firing Line

...

In 1971, Firing Line moved to the Public Broadcasting Service under the auspices of the Southern Educational Communications Association, an arm of South Carolina Educational Television. This was somewhat unusual, given the reputation among many conservatives that PBS unfairly discriminated against non-liberal viewpoints in its other programming. SECA/SCETV, however, was one of the very few public broadcasting entities of that time that was sympathetic to the conservative movement. Because the program received a relatively unfavorable Sunday evening timeslot on PBS' schedule in the early 1970s, Buckley and Steibel briefly attempted to return Firing Line to commercial TV, but could not find sponsors (the probable reason the show moved to public TV in the first place). Thus, the program would remain on PBS until Buckley and Steibel discontinued production in December 1999.

...

No sponsors just like what would happen with Sesame Street, et al. Firing Line exposed Americans to conservative ideas and other for 28 long years. They were the most famous. Then there was Crossfire and McLaughlin Group. Again, had it not been for PBS they would not have been exposed to Americans. ABC, CBS, NBC would have never taken up the slack. So in the end we had government sponsored conservatism being brought to Americans by way of PBS -- and that's fine with me.

5 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:24:12am

I am a supporter of my local PBS station, WHYY. Not only do I have some great TV shows (Antiques Roadshow, This Old House and those neat cooking shows) but I also go online to their website which is now featuring local news. For $50 a year it is a great deal. I rather see an old Black and White show of Julia Child than hear some other chef yelling "bam."

6 Mocking Jay  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:24:16am
Technically, the funding does not go directly to PBS or NPR; instead, it's sent to NPR outlets and PBS' 179 local stations around the country to help pay member fees in exchange for the right to air their programming.

"What it would really affect is our stations' ability to stay on the air," Bentley says. Such grants represent an average of 15% of stations' operating budgets, and up to 50% for some in rural areas. "They're really in jeopardy of going dark if they don't receive funding."

7 Bob Dillon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:25:15am

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

ANY person or entity taking down several hundred million profit should not have their face (even 10% of it) in the public trough.

8 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:27:31am

re: #7 Bob Dillon

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

ANY person or entity taking down several hundred million profit should not have their face (even 10% of it) in the public trough.

Read the article. They didn't have several hundred million dollars profit.

"As a result of this financial revenue model," the fact-sheet says, "we are able to deliver each new season of Sesame Street to PBS with more than 93 percent of production costs covered by licensing activities or corporate sponsorships. In 2010, Sesame Workshop had total operating revenues of $136.4 million and total operating expenses of $136.5 million."

They have .1 million debt.

Without the government subsidies, they'd have had a 14 million deficit.

And, again, mostly the problem is the funding of individual stations, not the PBS programming office.

9 Mocking Jay  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:27:46am

re: #7 Bob Dillon

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

ANY person or entity taking down several hundred million profit should not have their face (even 10% of it) in the public trough.

I don't know what you're arguing, but the real point is that people in many rural markets are only allowed to see PBS at all because government funding helps keep it on the air.

10 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:33:39am

re: #7 Bob Dillon

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

ANY person or entity taking down several hundred million profit should not have their face (even 10% of it) in the public trough.

So no government vendors and contractors are turning a profit? This is like saying Lockheed-Martin and Boeing shouldn't be making money. But I know. Visions of John Wayne and other Rambo-like neo-militarist and pseudo-patriotism comes into play here! That's for WAR so it's OK.

11 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:35:26am

Cosmos
Frontline
NOVA
McNeil-Lehrer
This Old House
Rick Steves traveling to whereeverthefuck
Yan Can Cook
The Electric Company
Masterpiece Mysteries/Theatre...

I swear the GOP want's us all ignorant.
Don't tread on me !

12 Mocking Jay  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:35:51am

re: #11 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Cosmos
Frontline
NOVA
McNeil-Lehrer
This Old House
Rick Steves traveling to whereeverthefuck
Yan Can Cook
The Electric Company
Masterpiece Mysteries/Theatre...

I swear the GOP want's us all ignorant.

They want to remake the U.S in their own image...

13 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:36:31am

re: #11 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Cosmos
Frontline
NOVA
McNeil-Lehrer
This Old House
Rick Steves traveling to whereeverthefuck
Yan Can Cook
The Electric Company
Masterpiece Mysteries/Theatre...

I swear the GOP want's us all ignorant.

The bottom line isn't spending. It's a perceived "liberal bias" in PBS programing that they are against. The reality is that reality has a liberal bias. It's not about the money.

14 Kronocide  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:37:37am

re: #7 Bob Dillon

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

ANY person or entity taking down several hundred million profit should not have their face (even 10% of it) in the public trough.

What about subsidies for fuel companies that make billions per quarter?

15 Bob Dillon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:38:01am

We got the 2009 990 tax form submitted by the Sesame Workshop, the nonprofit group that produces the show, and DeMint is correct. It shows Knell's salary at $806,990, with an additional $149,523 worth of other compensation. For the toy sales numbers, we have to go to the 2008 990 tax form. In a section on "other income," it reports "toys and consumer products" as bringing just over $211 million from 2003 through 2006 (nearly $53 million a year, on average).

16 Bob Dillon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:39:09am

re: #14 Kronocide

What about subsidies for fuel companies that make billions per quarter?

ANY.

17 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:39:26am

re: #15 Bob Dillon

We got the 2009 990 tax form submitted by the Sesame Workshop, the nonprofit group that produces the show, and DeMint is correct. It shows Knell's salary at $806,990, with an additional $149,523 worth of other compensation. For the toy sales numbers, we have to go to the 2008 990 tax form. In a section on "other income," it reports "toys and consumer products" as bringing just over $211 million from 2003 through 2006 (nearly $53 million a year, on average).

I stopped reading at DeMint is correct.

18 Mocking Jay  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:40:38am

re: #15 Bob Dillon

We got the 2009 990 tax form submitted by the Sesame Workshop, the nonprofit group that produces the show, and DeMint is correct. It shows Knell's salary at $806,990, with an additional $149,523 worth of other compensation. For the toy sales numbers, we have to go to the 2008 990 tax form. In a section on "other income," it reports "toys and consumer products" as bringing just over $211 million from 2003 through 2006 (nearly $53 million a year, on average).

Yeah, let's keep ignoring why PBS needs money. Better way to make your argument, I guess.

19 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:40:44am

re: #10 Gus

So no government vendors and contractors are turning a profit? This is like saying Lockheed-Martin and Boeing shouldn't be making money. But I know. Visions of John Wayne and other Rambo-like neo-militarist and pseudo-patriotism comes into play here! That's for WAR so it's OK.

There is a difference between payment for services or products and subsidies. When the Marines pay Colt for the .45 ACP pistols Colt is making for them, they are not subsidizing Colt.

20 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:43:54am

Here's an article about those new pistols I mentioned. They are called M1911A1 Rail Guns and if you want to see how good they are, you can buy one yourself.

21 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:47:10am
22 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:49:28am

re: #13 Gus

The bottom line isn't spending. It's a perceived "liberal bias" in PBS programing that they are against. The reality is that reality has a liberal bias. It's not about the money.

Nope. It's about the fear of people developing critical thinking skills.
Now, let's tie this in with their desire to dismantle Head Start.

23 Kronocide  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:52:48am

re: #16 Bob Dillon

ANY.

I see. Government is baaad, unkay?

24 Bob Dillon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:28:27am

re: #23 Kronocide

I see. Government is baaad, unkay?

Not at all. We have the finest Government money can buy.

25 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:29:11am

You think as Mark Steyn got older he'd be less of an upper class twit, or act less than what he thinks an upper class twit should act like. But nooooo.

I've been reading his stuff for over thirty years and he's never stopped making my gorge rise.

26 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:29:57am

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

There is a difference between payment for services or products and subsidies. When the Marines pay Colt for the .45 ACP pistols Colt is making for them, they are not subsidizing Colt.

So, guns are product and TV shows are not?

27 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:35:05am

re: #26 Romantic Heretic

So, guns are product and TV shows are not?

Don't you know?

The military isn't government.

//

28 A Mom Anon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:47:16am

1)Mark Steyn is a hate and fearmongering nitwit.

2)This is not about money,if it was,these so called conservatives wouldn't be going after small potatoes like this. Seriously,picking on a little kid's tv show? One that has taught millions of kids to count,their colors,shapes and about getting along with people of all backrounds? Oh,wait....

3)The merchandising and so on from the licensing of the Sesame Street characters has little to do with the actual TV show. Sesame Street isn't exactly the only thing running on PBS either. There's Reading Rainbow,Arthur,Calliou,and at least a dozen other kids shows. Then there's the really cool stuff on for grown ups too. Science,history,travel. It's such a small investment with such a big return. Return on investment isn't all about making billions,either. Investing in people isn't so awful and I wish the right wing would knock it the hell off with that nonsense. It's destructive and mean.

29 Interesting Times  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 10:05:56am

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

Posting a link to Mark Steyn garbage is just as bad as posting something written by Limbaugh. Why do you not understand this?

30 Mocking Jay  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 10:12:26am

re: #7 Bob Dillon

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

ANY person or entity taking down several hundred million profit should not have their face (even 10% of it) in the public trough.

Mitt Romney Benefited From Government Bailout: Report

And one person who has gotten quite a lot of government help with his business over the years has been Mitt Romney.

The latest example comes from Rolling Stone, which in its Sept. 13 issue tells how the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. ended up footing a bill of at least $10 million in bailing out Bain & Co., the consulting firm that spawned the private-equity firm Bain Capital. The story is based partly on documents the magazine received under the Freedom of Information Act. It will probably get a lot less attention than Matt Taibbi's cover opus on Romney in the same issue, but is no less interesting.

Last I checked, Bain ended up making some profit$...

31 Sophia77  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 10:23:46am

Right. Bain should just take over the US and fire all the workers and strip us all our benefits, like NPR.

These people are killing everything that's free and beautiful in the world.

32 A Mom Anon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 10:26:52am

And one more thing,because this whole fucking argument just pisses me right the fuck off:

I've mentioned here at LGF that I have a kid with Asperger Syndrome,a form of autism. Because freaking insurance companies would not help us with the cost of various therapies,I gave up getting an education and a career to help my son learn to speak,read,write and become an independent young man. I don't regret any of it for a second,but I needed help and a found it in alot of unusual places.

A large part of HOW I taught him these things came from shows on PBS like Sesame Street,Mr Rogers' Neighborhood,Reading Rainbow and many others. I got so many ideas and clues for how to work with him by watching those programs and his responses to them. Yes,there were some other shows on cable that helped too(Blues Clues,Bear in the Big Blue House and a couple others)but when he was little,our budget didn't allow for anything beyond the most basic of things. Including our cable budget. Without PBS,I would have had less to work with in what was an extremely frightening time for me as a Mom.

Only a fucking bully would pick on Big Bird,seriously. How in THE HELL is funding PBS doing a disservice to anyone?

33 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 10:33:01am

Mark Steyn is a dishonest, bigoted, hateful asshole, and this economic argument isn't fooling anyone except right wing drones. The real reason for the right's long-standing hatred of PBS and NPR is because they see these media outlets as threatening to them. PBS represents a better educated populace, able to think for themselves, and that concept is anathema to the authoritarian right.

This is an ugly, dishonest piece of wingnut garbage.

34 A Mom Anon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 10:41:46am

re: #33 Charles Johnson

Exactly. I'd at least respect them a tiny bit if they'd be honest about why they hate these things so much. But no,what's worse is that they get the public to hate things that exist for the public good in the first place,like schools,parks,PBS,NPR,anything that's part of the common good. And the saddest thing is,they manage to convince the people that could benefit most from those things to hate them.

This is why I cannot forgive people like Steyn,Limbaugh,Beck and the rest of that nest of vipers. Their hatemongering destroys communities from within by making people distrust their neighbors and family. That does have an effect on the greater community. And I believe a lot of them know it and find joy in that. There isn't a hell hot enough for people who do that,and then have the balls to tell me that I'm the hateful one who doesn't love my country. Fuck them.

35 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 10:52:20am

re: #34 A Mom Anon

Exactly. I'd at least respect them a tiny bit if they'd be honest about why they hate these things so much. But no,what's worse is that they get the public to hate things that exist for the public good in the first place,like schools,parks,PBS,NPR,anything that's part of the common good. And the saddest thing is,they manage to convince the people that could benefit most from those things to hate them.

This is why I cannot forgive people like Steyn,Limbaugh,Beck and the rest of that nest of vipers. Their hatemongering destroys communities from within by making people distrust their neighbors and family. That does have an effect on the greater community. And I believe a lot of them know it and find joy in that. There isn't a hell hot enough for people who do that,and then have the balls to tell me that I'm the hateful one who doesn't love my country. Fuck them.

Agree 100%.
Well said.

36 CuriousLurker  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 12:30:55pm

re: #34 A Mom Anon

And a fine, righteous rant that was. Here, have some extra updings. ;)

37 dragonath  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 1:17:12pm

re: #34 A Mom Anon

There's a very republican town up the road from me that owes a good portion of its civic life to the New Deal. The old fairgrounds were sold and turned into a now abandoned stadium, but the large park created by the WPA still stands. It's the best thing about the place.

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

Dude. Mark Steyn. Since you've been evading direct answers to questions I'm just going to have to assume that you are totally okay with the Republican party harboring racists, creationists, and homophobes. I was willing to take you in good faith but no more.

38 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 1:17:42pm

re: #32 A Mom Anon

And one more thing,because this whole fucking argument just pisses me right the fuck off:

I've mentioned here at LGF that I have a kid with Asperger Syndrome,a form of autism. Because freaking insurance companies would not help us with the cost of various therapies,I gave up getting an education and a career to help my son learn to speak,read,write and become an independent young man. I don't regret any of it for a second,but I needed help and a found it in alot of unusual places.

A large part of HOW I taught him these things came from shows on PBS like Sesame Street,Mr Rogers' Neighborhood,Reading Rainbow and many others. I got so many ideas and clues for how to work with him by watching those programs and his responses to them. Yes,there were some other shows on cable that helped too(Blues Clues,Bear in the Big Blue House and a couple others)but when he was little,our budget didn't allow for anything beyond the most basic of things. Including our cable budget. Without PBS,I would have had less to work with in what was an extremely frightening time for me as a Mom.

Only a fucking bully would pick on Big Bird,seriously. How in THE HELL is funding PBS doing a disservice to anyone?

I've been amazed at the things my kids have learned from PBS. My eldest basically learned by watching some of the programs. All I had to do was show her some more sounds/patterns and she was off and running, reading far above grade level.

39 dragonath  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 1:24:22pm

I think it's kind of ironic that public displays of government owned jets flying over sports events is okay but somehow a comparatively small investment in public education is not.

The military doesn't make a profit. Like defense, there are certain things that are worth paying for on their own. Why this can be accepted for one thing and not the other is the question.

40 A Mom Anon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 1:41:34pm

re: #39 dragonath

I wonder how much it does cost for those fly overs at NASCAR events and stuff? It ain't free,those big birds(heh) need fuel and someone to keep them up and running plus a pilot. So are taxpayers footing the bill for that?

41 A Mom Anon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 1:42:15pm

re: #36 CuriousLurker

Thank you. I shall hoard and treasure those,lol.

42 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 1:49:09pm

You know, I really am sick and fucking tired of this right wing vendetta against PBS and NPR. It seems like it's been going on my whole life. Reactionary assholes.

Sorry. I just realized how long these cavemen have been trying to destroy one of the best things the government does. Fuck them.

43 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 1:53:20pm

Jim DeMint

Alma mater:

The University of Tennessee (also referred to as the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, UT Knoxville or UT or UTK) is a public sun-grant and land-grant university headquartered at Knoxville, Tennessee, United States.

Clemson University is an American public, coeducational, land-grant and sea-grant research university located in Clemson, South Carolina, United States.

Jim DeMint is a moocher?

44 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 1:54:17pm

Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot

Thank you Carl Sagan and thank you PBS for bringing him to our global community.

45 dragonath  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 1:58:06pm

re: #40 A Mom Anon

"Training"

But the same thing happens in the health care debate, with scare words like "insolvency". Isn't it worth investing in public health? And on the other side of the debate, Democrats have done more to keep Medicare solvent under Obama after the unfunded debacle that was Medicare Part D.

Goddamnedfrank had a good catch on the first PBS article posted today, which had a falsehood regarding Simpson-Bowles recommendations.

46 thecommodore  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 2:58:31pm

Mark Steyn is a K-Mart Rush Limbaugh, who is a K-Mart human being.

47 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 3:43:38pm

DF:

By the way, that wasn't meant as a diatribe against you, it was more about Steyn and the entire right's utterly stupid, unrelenting attacks on PBS/NPR ... but jeez, man, WTF.

48 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:02:36pm

Seen somewhere else on the Net today: A year of PBS is six hours of Pentagon spending.

49 philosophus invidius  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:13:25pm

If programing is good enough it will be able to survive in the free market.

Right. That is why Dateline NBC is so much better than Frontline and Shark Week is better than Nature.

If anything, the perceived competition of such shows has made PBS programming much worse over the last 20 years. (Look at the crap they put on when they need to attract viewers for pledge drives.)

50 Lidane  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:43:12pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

The real reason for the right's long-standing hatred of PBS and NPR is because they see these media outlets as threatening to them. PBS represents a better educated populace, able to think for themselves, and that concept is anathema to the authoritarian right.

EXACTLY.

The Republicans hate on PBS and NPR because they don't want people thinking for themselves or questioning anything. They just want mindless idiots who will swallow their bullshit wholesale. It's not about the money and it never has been. It's about killing one of the few outlets in this country for education and culture for its citizens.

Oh, and as long as I'm in this thread, fuck National Review and fuck Mark Steyn. NR and its racist self can go burn for all I care, and Steyn is a dishonest ass.

51 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:08:11pm

yeah get rid of PBS but totally ignore the bloating DoD contracts and projects that even the Pentagon want to get rid of. Give me a break, Steyn.

52 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:21:14pm

Just one more sign of a society in decay.

Fuck the arts, fuck the kids who watch PBS, fuck Heather and Her Two Mommys.

Privatize everything.

DF, no offense, but you're thinking is simplistic, atavistic, militaristic and ultimately downright reactionary.

53 alpuz  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 10:51:14pm
54 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 11:38:37pm

re: #15 Bob Dillon

We got the 2009 990 tax form submitted by the Sesame Workshop, the nonprofit group that produces the show, and DeMint is correct. It shows Knell's salary at $806,990, with an additional $149,523 worth of other compensation. For the toy sales numbers, we have to go to the 2008 990 tax form. In a section on "other income," it reports "toys and consumer products" as bringing just over $211 million from 2003 through 2006 (nearly $53 million a year, on average).

1. Sesame Workshop is not a part of PBS or The Corporation for Public Broadcasting, it is an independent non-profit production company that makes a television show that is shown on PBS.

2. As an independent non-profit production company the compensation of it's stagehands, writers, actors, directors, office staff, and President are in no way decided upon or controlled by PBS or The Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

3. The level of compensation paid to Mr. Knell seems quite reasonable if not actually low when it is compared to that of executive producers/presidents of other for-profit production companies that produce show for other networks.

BTW, what the fuck does any of this actually have to do with PBS in the first place? Besides the fact that they purchase (by helping to pay a small part of the production costs) "Sesame Street" from the Sesame Street Workshop and then air the episodes that is.

55 Achilles Tang  Sun, Oct 7, 2012 12:25:47pm

While we are at it, why should we, as a nation, waste tax dollars on any cultural organization? What for example is the point of storing old airplanes, and space shuttles, at taxpayer expense; they do not serve the economy and only create government jobs?

Dump the Smithsonian for a start, and then all those old fashioned classical music orchestras and their buildings!/

56 Destro  Sun, Oct 7, 2012 7:00:49pm

re: #49 philosophus invidius

If programing is good enough it will be able to survive in the free market.

Right. That is why Dateline NBC is so much better than Frontline and Shark Week is better than Nature.

If anything, the perceived competition of such shows has made PBS programming much worse over the last 20 years. (Look at the crap they put on when they need to attract viewers for pledge drives.)

Masterpiece Theater starring "Honey Boo Boo"


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