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1 Destro  Wed, Oct 10, 2012 8:50:25pm

That's why in many Western European countries, where they are more free than Americans (and have greater upwards mobility), an employer can't fire an employee just because and an employee can appeal to third party of some kind to intercede.

I guess that's why they have so few workplace shootings in Europe, too.

2 JeffFX  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 5:47:03am

re: #1 Destro

Not being able to dismiss employees at will isn't freedom. It's quite the opposite. Anyone should be able to hire and fire employees as needed. The problem only comes in where health care is tied to employment.

While the Europeans are a lot more civilized than the ignorant conservatives that make elements of American culture toxic, they get a lot wrong too.

3 Destro  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 7:14:05am

re: #2 JeffFX

Not being able to dismiss employees at will isn't freedom. It's quite the opposite. Anyone should be able to hire and fire employees as needed. The problem only comes in where health care is tied to employment.

While the Europeans are a lot more civilized than the ignorant conservatives that make elements of American culture toxic, they get a lot wrong too.

It's freedom from tyranny of the employer to the employee. I am sure slave holders thought their freedom was violated when Lincoln freed the slaves or when OSHA implements worker safety rules and such.

When America has unlimited free land we killed the Indians for, a worker in theory could tell his boss to go F himself and leave to start a farm on free former Indian land and build a sod cabin, etc. When there are no longer alternatives to being an employee and thus under the power and influence of a 'boss' over your life, that is to me and many civilized people, a form of tyranny.

Ancient Athenians considered being an employee no different than being a slave. In fact their word for a salaried employee (even well paid ones) was the same as that for a slave held in bondage (doulos - which predates the term "sklave aka slave from the Slavs").

To an Athenian the only free person was someone who had at least enough land to raise enough food to feed his family. That is why land owners were the only ones allowed to vote at first. Because they were 'independent' and thus could make choices free from fear. Being an employee puts you under the will of the employer and that was considered a form of intimidation and a sign of lack of true freedom. We in the USA circumvented that because of our vast open spaces and because during the industrial revolution there was a buyer's market for labor up to a point which allowed unions to have some power to push back on employers and thus create a balance.

What is there now?

You have to stop thinking about the world in the way you have. That world is over.

4 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 7:25:27am

Siegel is not only merely vulgar and tacky, he made his fortune by running sleazy scams.

Anybody who works for him is likely to be:

1. A telemarketer working out of some offshore call center.
2. A timeshare sales rep who is just as sleazy as he is.

5 Aligarr  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 7:43:41am

Hey , C'mon I had to pay for those breast implants ! and I couldn't even get a deduction for them !!

6 Destro  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 7:53:39am

re: #4 Sheila Broflovski

Why is time-saharing such a sleazy business? Reminds me of Glengarry Glen Ross types.

7 calochortus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:19:52am

He's not very original. See: Snopes. My guess? He's just looking for publicity.


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