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12 comments

1 Bob Dillon  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 1:21:43pm

Wouldn't be the first time Russian aircraft or airliners passing thru Russia have been caught carrying weapons illegally.

[Link: www.time.com...]

2 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 2:15:43pm

Mr. Erdogan’s accusation, reported by Turkey’s semiofficial Anatolian News Agency, came only hours after the Kremlin said no military cargo had been aboard the plane and accused the Turks of illegally grounding and searching it.

The plane was in Turkish air space was it not? Nuff said.

3 Destro  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 2:26:41pm

re: #1 Bob Dillon

Wouldn't be the first time Russian aircraft or airliners passing thru Russia have been caught carrying weapons illegally.

[Link: www.time.com...]

Would not be the first time Turks made shit up for national security reasons.

I mean is not Turkey working with rebels and arming them against Syria?

4 Destro  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 2:27:24pm

re: #2 Only The Lurker Knows

Mr. Erdogan’s accusation, reported by Turkey’s semiofficial Anatolian News Agency, came only hours after the Kremlin said no military cargo had been aboard the plane and accused the Turks of illegally grounding and searching it.

The plane was in Turkish air space was it not? Nuff said.

Using fighters to threaten civilian airliner...... Gee, when the USSR shot down KAL007 over Soviet airspace I did not hear Americans support that excuse.

5 EiMitch  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 3:48:45pm

re: #4 Destro

Using fighters to threaten civilian airliner...... Gee, when the USSR shot down KAL007 over Soviet airspace I did not hear Americans support that excuse.

Gee Destro, its like you're trying to miss the point.

Again.

You made a big stink at one time about how us Americans tend to demonize foreign leaders, and that they're really men of their word, etc. Wrong! Everyone lies, be they Russian, American, European, mobsters, etc...

In another thread, you told me the Russians had stopped arming the Syrian regime. Well, I really need a few bucks, and I've got a nice bridge I don't need anymore. Make me an offer, please.

6 Political Atheist  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 3:55:42pm

re: #4 Destro

I don't see the comparison between forcing a plane to land for inspection with a fighter and shooting a plane down without warning. Enforcing law in it's airspace is an obligation for a responsible nation.

It would have been so much better if the Russians had made that plane land at an airfield.

7 Political Atheist  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 3:59:20pm

re: #2 Only The Lurker Knows

Mr. Erdogan’s accusation, reported by Turkey’s semiofficial Anatolian News Agency, came only hours after the Kremlin said no military cargo had been aboard the plane and accused the Turks of illegally grounding and searching it.

The plane was in Turkish air space was it not? Nuff said.

Part of international overflight permission is the right to stop and search for cause. AFAIK, they should have sent the people on their way and confiscated the aircraft for the violation (Only if true of course).

8 Destro  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 6:04:36pm

re: #5 EiMitch

How do you know the Turks, who are arming the Syrian rebels is being truthful? Why do you accept their 'truth'?

And what would have happened if the Syrian pilot refused to land? You OK with the airplane being shot down then?

9 EiMitch  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 7:51:02pm

re: #8 Destro

How do you know the Turks, who are arming the Syrian rebels is being truthful? Why do you accept their 'truth'?

Whereas the Russian government's "truth" is beyond doubt? C'mon! If that is best argument you have to offer, then why bother?

And what would have happened if the Syrian pilot refused to land? You OK with the airplane being shot down then?

Isn't that a possibility anytime a fighter jet orders a plane down anywhere on earth for any reason? Whats special about this case?

Am I okay with a civilian plane being shot down? No. But there is alot of s*** happening around there I'm not okay with. I'm not going to go rage-aholic over something that could've (read: didn't) happened. There are more than enough things that actually happened for me to be upset about.

What do you propose to do about it anyway? Impose sanctions on Turkey for ordering down an unauthorized aircraft in their own airspace? Good luck with that.

Besides, a civilian pilot has to be out of his damn mind to ignore fighter jets telling him to land. I mean, really. Come on!

And am I going senile, or did Syrian forces recently open artillery fire across the border? Should Turkey just trust them in their airspace after that, or did Turkish authorities make that one up too?

Did I miss anything? Is there any other way to analyze the "a plane was ordered down, oh the humanity" argument? Because I really want to be done with this topic. Thats the only reason I was this thorough.

Come to think about it, its not even worth this much effort.

Why not? Because there is no non-lethal way to enforce airspace. Sooner or later, one place or another, s*** like this will happen again. There is nothing that can be done about it. Its one of life's inevitable horrors. Breathe a sigh of relief that nobody got hurt this time, and then move along.

10 General Nimrod Bodfish  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:16:19pm

Turkey should turn over any alleged contraband and any evidence/intelligence to the proper UN/NATO authorities to show why they suspected a civilian airliner to be transporting illegal contraband. It's on Turkey to show why they took this course of action, then up to the responsible body to determine if such a course was necessary and/or impose any punishment for any wrongdoing.

IF Russia (or a private entity in Russia) did use a civilian airliner to send illegal contraband to Syria in violation to any sanctions imposed on Syria, then they should be punished as harsh as international laws would allow. It would spell a worrying spread of the conflict outside of Syria that would bring in not only Turkey and Russia, but also NATO and the Middle East into a huge mess, both politically, diplomatically and militarily. That, obviously, cannot be allowed to happen. Cooler heads need to prevail.

11 Destro  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 4:39:39am

What do you propose to do about it anyway? Impose sanctions on Turkey for ordering down an unauthorized aircraft in their own airspace? Good luck with that.

I want to impose sanctions on Turkey for illegally invading, occupying and ethnic cleansing a country called Cyprus.

Syria's rebels are being armed by fucked up countries like Saudi Arabia via Turkey. In this regard, Russia has every right to arm the official Syrian govt forces against rebels linked to terrorist extremists.

Turkey is not a neutral source in any way on this.

12 EiMitch  Sat, Oct 13, 2012 1:50:20pm

re: #10 General Nimrod Bodfish

This is a more rational comment. I kinda expected someone to say something along those lines sooner. Oh well.

re: #11 Destro

I want to impose sanctions on Turkey for illegally invading, occupying and ethnic cleansing a country called Cyprus.

Thats a fine idea, but completely off-topic.

In this regard, Russia has every right to arm the official Syrian govt forces against rebels linked to terrorist extremists.

So then you acknowledge that Russia is arming the Syrian regime? I brought it up because you claimed they stopped arming Syria, and we can't trust what Turkey claims about...

Turkey is not a neutral source in any way on this.

Or maybe you're not acknowledging it? If I wanted double-talk, I'd listen to **insert pun about politician**. Don't give me that look. I'm having an off-day.

That terrorist warlords have usurped a previously justified rebellion doesn't change that the Syrian regime committed crimes against humanity in the first place.

Want me to acknowledge that we shouldn't arm the rebels? Sure, just as soon as you retract the statement about Russia having a right to arm the current regime. Because the lesser of two evils is still evil. F*** 'em both.


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