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1 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:15:11pm

Not necessarily. Federal agents aren't as well armored from the rear and if your turn and leave, then not only do you look like you've lost but you've also lost your awareness of both the crowd and the drugs.

2 Bob Dillon  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:01:16pm

"man shot by U.S. Border Patrol agents on the U.S. side of the border"
and
"The agents watched the two abandon a load of narcotics and run back to Mexico."
and
"People on the south side of the border fence"
and
"One agent opened fire and it appeared he struck one of the people"

Does not add up.

There is more to this story. And, throwing rocks at armed officers (who are trained professionals in law as well as tactics), anywhere, is a poor choice of action. DF is correct.

3 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:57:47am

One more point here regarding American law is worth bringing up, and this is true in all 50 states: If people are throwing potentially lethal rocks at you, then you have no duty to retreat. Riot police sometimes might pull back anyways, to avoid escalating matters. But Border Patrol agents on patrol don't have the kind of armor and shields that allow riot police some protection while pulling back. Under such circumstances they cannot safely retreat, and that being the case, deadly force is then lawful and allowed by their regulations to stop the attack.

4 BishopX  Sat, Oct 13, 2012 2:43:34pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Dude, the kid was shot eight times. Standard training just above everywhere is hoot twice and then evaluate. So the Border Patrol fucked up. Don't go justifying what they did by citing procedure when what they did violated procedure.

Also, question of front vs. rear armor is irrelevant. Rocks are dangerous becuase they might hit you in the head... front vs. back doesn't matter.

5 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 13, 2012 3:15:30pm

re: #4 BishopX

Dude, the kid was shot eight times. Standard training just above everywhere is hoot twice and then evaluate. So the Border Patrol fucked up. Don't go justifying what they did by citing procedure when what they did violated procedure.

Also, question of front vs. rear armor is irrelevant. Rocks are dangerous becuase they might hit you in the head... front vs. back doesn't matter.

I do justify it: If you throw lethal objects at law enforcement, it's your own damn fault if you get shot and killed. Period.

6 palomino  Sat, Oct 13, 2012 11:59:32pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

I do justify it: If you throw lethal objects at law enforcement, it's your own damn fault if you get shot and killed. Period.

Why am I not surprised that you're justifying the shooting of a 16-year old rock thrower? You seem to have a knee-jerk automatic reaction in favor of law enforcement, no matter what they've done.

Maybe, just maybe, you could think in terms of non-lethal responses by law enforcement. And how about asking the question "Did the cop really need to kill this kid?" instead of "Was the cop legally justified to shoot?" There's a difference, a moral one. As you're fond of saying, morality and legality aren't the same thing.

7 palomino  Sun, Oct 14, 2012 12:02:40am

So the agent just started shooting in the direction of the flying rocks?

Imagine that happening in a crowded American city: a cop just starts shooting in the direction of flying rocks, not AT an individual. Now imagine the outcry that would result. But, hey, this is Mexico...so who cares, right?

Unless there's more to the story, the agent really fucked up.

8 Gus  Sun, Oct 14, 2012 8:42:51am

Heavy handed 3rd world country police tactics. They must be doing their training with the IDF.

9 Gus  Sun, Oct 14, 2012 8:53:08am

Butthurt.

10 Gus  Sun, Oct 14, 2012 9:00:03am

Border Patrol shooting of Mexican teen draws condemnation
Agents say the boy, 16, was throwing rocks. Critics have grown increasingly vocal at the frequency of such incidents and what they call a lack of transparency in follow-up investigations.

By Richard Marosi and Richard Fausset, Los Angeles Times
October 13, 2012

The fatal shooting of a teenager suspected of throwing rocks at U.S. Border Patrol agents has prompted strong condemnations from Mexican officials and human rights groups amid a sharp increase in agent-involved killings along the U.S.-Mexico border.

The suspected smuggler was shot Wednesday night by agents after they ordered a group of youths near downtown Nogales, Mexico, to stop throwing rocks, according to U.S. officials. Jose Antonio Elena Rodriguez, 16, died at the scene from several bullet wounds, according to Mexican authorities in the state of Sonora, which sits across the border from Arizona.

Under agency guidelines, repelling rock attacks with bullets can be regarded as a justifiable use of force in part because rocks have inflicted serious injuries on agents. But critics have grown increasingly vocal at the frequency of such incidents and what they call a lack of transparency in follow-up investigations. Wednesday's confrontation was the third incident since September; at least 15 civilians have died in agent-involved confrontations since 2010.

Continues.

11 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Oct 14, 2012 12:34:19pm

re: #8 Gus

Heavy handed 3rd world country police tactics. They must be doing their training with the IDF.

Shitty comment, that's all.


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