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1 Sionainn  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 10:13:42am

Not me. My kids get every vaccination, including flu every year.

2 TDG2112  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 10:47:50am

My wife does a lot of work (she works for medical insurance company contracted by the CDC due to the large data set her company collects) reviewing side effects of vaccines and is up on all this in a very technical way. There are potential problems, but not from the individual vaccines, but from the cocktails that are put together so they can be administered with a single shot.

The thing is, none of the side effects are anywhere close to what these opt-out parents freak out about. And to be honest, my wife freaks out over the slightest thing too and sometimes has trouble seeing the forest for the trees since she's so far buried under the data. But in the end the decision is always the same, we get the vaccinations. To not get them is a million times more risky (actually, I should probably get her to figure out quantitatively how much worse, it might make the next vaccination visit a little easier on me).

3 Destro  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 11:25:41am

This is a result of religious righters trying to stop HPV vaccines for girls spilling over to a general distrust of vaccines.

This is what happens when religious cultists take political power and subvert science.

4 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 12:00:40pm

The distruct of vaccines is much older than HPV vaccines, and it's been increasing steadily for quite a while. It started, I think, from the mercury in vaccines/autism concerns, and stir in some possible adverse reactions from soldiers getting many vaccines at once (this has not been established, I don't think, but I'm not going to research it right now).

Add to that the "I'm as clever as anyone, therefore I can judge complex scientific issues like global warning, vaccination risk factors and everything else as well as someone with ten years of education and training and wide acquaintance with the field" syndrome, and you end up going to the doctor for your annual physical and being told that you'd better get a whooping cough booster. At my age.

But I rant.

5 Sionainn  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 12:01:51pm

re: #3 Destro

This is a result of religious righters trying to stop HPV vaccines for girls spilling over to a general distrust of vaccines.

This is what happens when religious cultists take political power and subvert science.

This was happening before the HPV vaccination came about. Thank that asshole "doctor" with his fake studies that claimed vaccinations caused autism.

6 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 12:11:48pm

re: #4 Someone Please Beam Me Up!

The distruct of vaccines is much older than HPV vaccines, and it's been increasing steadily for quite a while. It started, I think, from the mercury in vaccines/autism concerns, and stir in some possible adverse reactions from soldiers getting many vaccines at once (this has not been established, I don't think, but I'm not going to research it right now).

Add to that the "I'm as clever as anyone, therefore I can judge complex scientific issues like global warning, vaccination risk factors and everything else as well as someone with ten years of education and training and wide acquaintance with the field" syndrome, and you end up going to the doctor for your annual physical and being told that you'd better get a whooping cough booster. At my age.

But I rant.

I think there was some allergic reaction when some egg extract was used as a carrier or something in the vaccines. That was correct A LONG time ago and is no longer an issue.

Vaccines are safe and make the world safer for the rest of us. Herd compliance and all.

7 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 2:07:33pm

re: #5 Sionainn

This was happening before the HPV vaccination came about. Thank that asshole "doctor" with his fake studies that claimed vaccinations caused autism.

His name is Andrew Wakefield. He used to be a doctor, but when his "MMR Vaccine Causes Autism!!1" study was revealed as dishonest and done while he was retained by trial lawyers with vaccine lawsuits pending he was stripped of his place on the rolls of those licensed to practice medicine in the UK.

8 calochortus  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 4:36:02pm

My daughter is a pediatrician and points out that the immigrant parents (who might actually have seen what happens when these diseases are unchecked) are likely to ask if there is any vaccination their child might need at a well child visit. Whereas, upper middle class American-born parents who have never seen a case of measles or whooping cough come in with all sorts of restrictions or weird schedules for vaccination they've come across on the internet.

Yes, there are kids who shouldn't get vaccinations and it is the responsibility of the rest of us to provide the 'herd immunity' that will protect those kids along with everyone else.

9 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 5:06:31pm

Small Pox is fun and educational!

Whooping cough is a party!

Tetanus builds character!

Look, I'm all for living history--I really love living history and drag my kids to it all that I can--but some parts of history I can skip.

10 b_sharp  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 5:17:22pm

re: #3 Destro

This is a result of religious righters trying to stop HPV vaccines for girls spilling over to a general distrust of vaccines.

This is what happens when religious cultists take political power and subvert science.

This has to do with the increase in autism and the false correlation with vaccines spurred by Andrew Wakefield's phony research in 1998. HPV vaccines weren't started until 2006.

Get your facts straight before making comments like this.

11 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 5:36:48pm

re: #10 Gangnam Style

This has to do with the increase in autism and the false correlation with vaccines spurred by Andrew Wakefield's phony research in 1998. HPV vaccines weren't started until 2006.

Get your facts straight before making comments like this.

To some extent, we also have the increased ability to detect autism.

I know kids with a diagnosis that would never have been diagnosed 20 years ago. They're too high functioning.

12 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 5:41:20pm

re: #3 Destro

This is a result of religious righters trying to stop HPV vaccines for girls spilling over to a general distrust of vaccines.

This is what happens when religious cultists take political power and subvert science.

The HPV vaccine is not the issue, and it never was.

This is about diseases such as tetanus, diphtheria, measles, and polio. A lot of the non-vacciners are hippies, frankly.

Really, seriously, not everything is about religion.

13 dragonath  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 6:06:50pm

So much concern about mercury in vaccines but none for mercury pollution...

sigh

14 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 7:04:48pm

re: #3 Destro

This is a result of religious righters trying to stop HPV vaccines for girls spilling over to a general distrust of vaccines.

This is what happens when religious cultists take political power and subvert science.

Not true. This was going on long before the HPV jab was on the market, and it crosses religious and partisan lines. You also get teary-eyed left-aligned idiots doing it.

15 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 7:06:40pm

re: #9 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Small Pox is fun and educational!

Whooping cough is a party!

Tetanus builds character!

Look, I'm all for living history--I really love living history and drag my kids to it all that I can--but some parts of history I can skip.

A member of the Society for Creative Anachronism once came down with bubonic plague. Can't recall how--it was work-related, IIRC.

It was promptly treated, and once they were OK, the mockery about 'taking historical recreation way too far' started.

16 Destro  Sun, Oct 21, 2012 10:24:40pm

re: #5 Sionainn

re: #10 Gangnam Style

re: #12 Mostly sane, most of the time.

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

One more time. The anti-vaccine fringe was a NON political movement (of all political stripes). They existed and were ignored.

Until the HPV issue came about I know of no politician that ever ran on a platform of being against vaccinations. During this year's Republican presidential campaign we had Republican candidates attack a candidate (Gov. Perry) who passed a sensible and standard HPV vaccine program.

I have never heard of that happening before.

For the first time a political party, the GOP, took a stance against a vaccine program and along with that came all the standard anti-vaccine tin foil hat stuff.

See Rep. Bachmann's claim she made about vaccines.

17 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 22, 2012 6:52:42am

re: #16 Destro

The GOP did not adopt an Antivaxxer platform. Perry caught flak primarily from Bachmann but also because he did not defend his program as well as he should have. It's true the religious objections to the HPV vaccine are bullshit, but that really is not a main driver of the antivaxxers. For that matter, Bachmann's main line of a attack was a dumb variation on Wakefield-style "vaccine injury" claims, not a religious objection. Her attack largely fizzled, too, since she couldn't back it up with any reputable sources.

Moreover, a critical problem has been that the antivaxxers were ignored. Because sane people ignoring them allowed their strength to grow unchallenged for years. Now we have yet another paranoid subculture, this one running across party lines.

Antivaxxers are not a left/right problem, and cannot be dealt with by railing against either party. The only solution to them is to make sure people vulnerable to their claims are given the facts early and often. It won't get rid of the hard-core antivaxxers (that cannot be done, given the nature of their conspiracist beliefs) but it will isolate them and reduce their ability to convert people to their beliefs.

18 Destro  Mon, Oct 22, 2012 11:45:04am

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

The GOP did not adopt an Antivaxxer platform.

I know of no mainstream Democrat who has made an anti-vaccine comment of any kind.

I can point to a one time contender and standard bearer for the GOP presidential nomination for such a anti-science whackado comment:

19 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 22, 2012 9:35:52pm

I understand where Destro is coming from on this one.

I thought it was interesting that the Texas mandate only included girls --when HPV is the cause of the a type of throat cancer that is on the rise -- affecting among others-gay men.

Boys and girls need to be vaccinated. Putting the responsibility squarely on girls --women is again short-sighted and ignorant.


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