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1 Destro  Thu, Oct 25, 2012 9:27:41am

To women everywhere I am sorry it takes recounting of actual traumatic experiences to get these points through the political right wing noise machine.

I am so sorry.

Remember, if Romney and the GOP wins the type of people that are making it so that you have to remind us of your trauma will come with him into power. It is a packaged deal.

Women, please go out there and vote Democrat en mass. Please.

2 Skip Intro  Thu, Oct 25, 2012 10:02:57am
I wonder, should, God forbid, Mourdock’s wife be impregnated through stranger rape, would he raise that child with love as God’s gift to him?

I believe he'd do what the other GOP paragons of Family Values like Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh have done; he'd divorce the slut and throw her and her bastard child out into the street.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

3 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 25, 2012 10:47:24am

The thing that saddens me is there's never any empathy from people like Mourdock and Akin. Really, I can't imagine the trauma of having first been raped and then being told that you're pregnant with the rapist's child.

4 TooManyJens  Thu, Oct 25, 2012 11:07:00am

I just want somebody to explain how it makes sense for God to specifically intend that a woman should become pregnant as a result of rape but not at all intend or want the rape itself. How does that work?

It's days like these when I'm happy being an atheist. (Well, I'm always perfectly content with being an atheist, but you know what I mean.)

5 Destro  Thu, Oct 25, 2012 12:13:10pm

You know what is funny? I don't get how Protestants who are Sola Scriptura (meaning they only follow what is in the Bible and not any tradition or interpretations of the Bible) find justification for God being against abortions in the Bible. The word or concept of abortion (pro or con) does not appear anywhere in the Old or New Testament.

6 lostlakehiker  Thu, Oct 25, 2012 12:26:51pm

re: #5 Destro

You know what is funny? I don't get how Protestants who are Sola Scriptura (meaning they only follow what is in the Bible and not any tradition or interpretations of the Bible) find justification for God being against abortions in the Bible. The word or concept of abortion (pro or con) does not appear anywhere in the Old or New Testament.

Interpreting even secular literature from a century ago takes some effort. Each culture has its own background information, the stuff that everyone knows and so no one bothers to spell out. Allusions work in their day, for readers who are clued in. Otherwise, not.

East Germans couldn't work West German crossword puzzles. Same language, same time, but things were that much different. To just read a passage, and imagine that you understand it, is a form of "pride". "I don't need to give this even as much thought as I would a crossword puzzle, I'm so right".

That said, the general trend of doctrine in the Bible is fairly clear. It's against human sacrifice, against infanticide, and against masturbation. Interpolate between those positions and you might well arrive at the conclusion that abortion is also frowned upon.

On the other hand, it's against rape. Interpolate from there and you might well arrive at the conclusion that rapists shouldn't be allowed to force their way into the next generation via unwilling wombs.

7 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 25, 2012 12:35:48pm

re: #5 Destro

You know what is funny? I don't get how Protestants who are Sola Scriptura (meaning they only follow what is in the Bible and not any tradition or interpretations of the Bible) find justification for God being against abortions in the Bible. The word or concept of abortion (pro or con) does not appear anywhere in the Old or New Testament.

First, there's really no such thing as simple Biblical literalism. No matter how much anyone protests that he's only following the text, he's either receiving interpretation from his education and denominational context, or he's a lone nut interpreting according to his own whims and notions, but everyone interprets. (This is something that people who attack the Koran generally do not seem to understand at all. )

The closest you come to a discussion of abortion in the Hebrew Scriptures is Exodus 21:22, which does not seem to assume fetal personhood, although you can have some very strange arguments about it. There are also a variety of statements in Jeremiah which are commonly cited by pro-life activists. (They're rather nice verses, and Christian blogs about parenting tend to like them in general.)

Slacktivist has a series of very good and informative posts on how American Evangelicalism changed it's approach to abortion dramatically over a period of time during the twentieth century.

8 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Oct 25, 2012 1:20:09pm

Glad you posted that link & that I read it.
THANK YOU.

9 CuriousLurker  Thu, Oct 25, 2012 2:10:29pm

Excellent!

10 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 25, 2012 2:49:24pm

re: #6 lostlakehiker

The bible is not really anti-masturbation. If you're referring to Onan, that's a very different story.

11 Destro  Fri, Oct 26, 2012 8:30:59am

re: #7 SanFranciscoZionist

The closest you come to a discussion of abortion in the Hebrew Scriptures is Exodus 21:22, which does not seem to assume fetal personhood, although you can have some very strange arguments about it.

And that is about it. I brought this up once and the answer I got back was that Hebrews of that era had no medial knowhow to perform abortions which I don't think is true.

The only ancient world anti-abortion statement that I know of from that region comes from the pagan Greek Hippocratic Oath (which is sort of a religious oath). If ancient Greeks were able to perform abortions (and thus requiring an oath to stop the practice) than it is a practice and ability that existed at that era.

PS: I have always wondered if our taboo against abortion is from the adoption of Greek philosophy into Judaism (Philo of Alexandria) since Hellenistic civilization was influencing judaism and out of that came Christianity, a syncratic religion of Judaism and Hellenistic philosophies from the 1st and 2nd centuries.

12 Obdicut  Fri, Oct 26, 2012 11:46:05am

re: #11 Destro

The Hippocratic Oath only proscribes a certain method of abortion-- a pessary-- one that had a huge chance of killing the woman. It is not at all correct to say that the Hellenistic civilization was anti-abortion. In addition, the Roman Civilization, from which the Christian sprang, was very pro-abortion.

Please don't continue to give support to the idea the Hippocratic Oath is anti-abortion.


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