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1 Rochi613  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 2:18:47pm

Abbas has already said he did not mean giving up the so-called 'right of return.'

2 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 2:28:49pm

‘If Abu Mazen is really serious and intends to promote peace, as far as I’m concerned we can sit down together immediately.’

Sounds like the ball has been returned across the net. But the problem is that Abbas does not want to sit down with Netanyahu, he wants to go to the UN with a statehood bid.

In his shoes, I might do the same, for a number of reasons. But in Netanyahu's shoes, my response would be much more his than Peres'.

3 Bob Levin  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 2:31:26pm

re: #2 SanFranciscoZionist

When I'm allowed to live in the West Bank, then something has happened. As it stands now, I would be committing the crime of being Jewish.

4 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 2:42:10pm

re: #3 Bob Levin

When I'm allowed to live in the West Bank, then something has happened. As it stands now, I would be committing the crime of being Jewish.

I'm honestly not able to waste too much energy on the fact that there will not be a Jewish population permitted to live in a Palestinian state. Yes, it grinds my teeth, but the fact is, Jews were kicked out of or fled the Arab world a long time ago, and that will remain a fact. If a stable situation can be created regardless, then I will take that deal (not that anyone actually is asking me).

I agree with Daniel Gordis that when the time comes, almost all the Jews living in the West Bank will follow the army back inside whatever lines are established.

But whether we can get there from here is a big, big IF, and I'm going to take a lot of convincing to accept Abbas as the guy who can get us there.

5 Bob Levin  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 2:58:24pm

re: #4 SanFranciscoZionist

I was making the point that there are moves that appear to be something, when if fact, they aren't much, if anything. I certainly wouldn't want to retire to Area C, and the Nuremberg Laws are definitely teeth grinders. I would think that a stable situation requires the elimination of Nuremberg Laws, which are just shades of banning our existence.

6 Aligarr  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 3:48:04pm

I would take this so-called concession , in context of what was most recently stated by Abbas .
And given THAT , this eye-opener is just another meaningless ploy .

7 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:34:25pm

re: #2 SanFranciscoZionist

‘If Abu Mazen is really serious and intends to promote peace, as far as I’m concerned we can sit down together immediately.’

Sounds like the ball has been returned across the net. But the problem is that Abbas does not want to sit down with Netanyahu, he wants to go to the UN with a statehood bid.

In his shoes, I might do the same, for a number of reasons. But in Netanyahu's shoes, my response would be much more his than Peres'.

Ditto. Abbas has earned a bad reputation, and it should surprise no one that Netanyahu is treading carefully. As you say, the ball is in Abbas's court. If he really wants genuine peace, then he'll be able to get it.

BTW: I'll still be posting on Pages dealing with foreign affairs for the next few days, but I'm going to stay off the main threads and articles dealing with the election. I just thought you and Bob should know, SFZ.

8 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:38:36pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

Ditto. Abbas has earned a bad reputation, and it should surprise no one that Netanyahu is treading carefully. As you say, the ball is in Abbas's court. If he really wants genuine peace, then he'll be able to get it.

BTW: I'll still be posting on Pages dealing with foreign affairs for the next few days, but I'm going to stay off the main threads and articles dealing with the election. I just thought you and Bob should know, SFZ.

That may be best for your blood pressure. Stay scaly.

9 Destro  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 6:22:33am

The hatred of Palestinians is strong with this group.

10 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 6:23:36am

re: #9 Destro

The hatred of Palestinians is strong with this group.

What group?

11 Destro  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 8:56:59am

re: #10 Obdicut

What group?

The bunch above - I can post you times when specific individuals on this thread for example mocked Palestinians in Gaza who live under that blockade - just one example.

12 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:32:36am

re: #11 Destro

The bunch above - I can post you times when specific individuals on this thread for example mocked Palestinians in Gaza who live under that blockade - just one example.

Please do so. And make sure you provide examples for all the people above, since you're leveling an accusation of bigotry, which is a serious one.

Unless, of course, you're the kind of clown that throws around an accusation of hatred and bigotry without actually being able to back it up.

Do you understand that Abbas walked back his statements on letting go of right and return, by the way?


[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

13 Destro  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:12:30am

re: #12 Obdicut

He walked back his statement when Netanyahu did not come back with a positive and he got flack from his home base with nothing to show for his feeler. You realize that right?

14 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:22:03am

re: #13 Destro

He walked back his statement when Netanyahu did not come back with a positive and he got flack from his home base with nothing to show for his feeler. You realize that right?

No, I don't. Can you please demonstrate or prove it, rather than simply asserting it?

You seem to have skipped over providing evidence of hatred of Palestinians on the part of all the people who posted in the above thread. Could you please do so, or were you just making shit up when you said you could do that?

15 Destro  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:23:23am

re: #12 Obdicut

Here is Bob Levin mocking the Gaza blockade runners "Without boxes of saxophones (per Estelle), Israel assists Gaza" @ [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

And here are LGF members mocking Rachel Corries death @ [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Per the observation of Aye Pod "The creepy gloating of extremists and 'Israel supporting' wingnuts over the death of a naive person is what I remember from the last 8 years."

16 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:52:19am

Yes, we had a brief, shimmering moment of hope here, folks, which was shot down in cold blood, as Bibi Netanyahu said "Talk is cheap. If you're serious about peace, sit down with me."

Bibi didn't clap, and the Tinkerbell of Peace died.

///Oh for God's sake. There's a lot going on here, and I'm trying to discuss it seriously, but if it's going to deteriorate into 'you must hate the Palestinians if you don't take every word out of Abbas' mouth at face value', not much point.

17 Destro  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:04:22pm

re: #16 SanFranciscoZionist

I like how you are defending Netanyahu here and previously you claimed you hated him. Can I add you to the Bibi Brigade?

I also note your defense of Bibi backer Sheldon Adelson? @ [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

18 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:42:54pm

re: #15 Destro

You've failed to provide any support that San Francisco Zionist, Aligarr, or Rochi613 have any hatred for the Palestinians. I assume you have absolutely no proof of any sort in their cases, right?

As for the article by Bob-- can you show it it has any hate in it for Palestinians, please? I don't even get how it's mocking them, personally, but where are you getting hate from?

19 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 12:44:15pm

re: #17 Destro

You're serious, aren't you? You're seriously asking SFZ if she supports Bibi in general because she didn't condemn him in this specific instance? That's your actual mode of thinking?

Wowzers.

20 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 7:01:04pm

re: #17 Destro

I like how you are defending Netanyahu here and previously you claimed you hated him. Can I add you to the Bibi Brigade?

I also note your defense of Bibi backer Sheldon Adelson? @ [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Whee! You're a complete stranger on a blog. You can add me to any brigade you want.

Now, try to listen carefully:

I think Netanyahu is a schmuck. Unlike yourself, I can actually analyze people's political motivations without letting whether I like them override every other consideration. I don't like Bibi or Abbas, but I've got some ideas about what they're doing here, and why. I've said as clearly as I can that in my opinion, Abbas is gearing up to take his statehood bid to the UN. What he said was not an overture to Netanyahu. Netanyahu knows that, Abbas knows that, Hamas knows that. Only you seem to be left out in the cold.

Hence a little mockery, for your apparent belief that this interaction is somehow a missed opportunity for peace in the Middle East. You're being a little naive. Or not.

As for Sheldon Adelson, on the thread you triumphantly point to, I dinged you down, and HappyWarrior up, and said nothing. Try to figure out why. Hint: it's not because I like Sheldon Adelson. Adelson is a cynical bastard pouring an ungodly lot of money into the political campaign of another cynical bastard. I do not approve, I'd like to see the money go to, well, almost anything else, and have said so a number of times. For one thing, he's backing a terrible candidate, and for another, his candidate is doomed, so that's a lot of money down the drain that could have built a couple hospitals or something.

That's my issue with Sheldon. My issue with you...well, I think you can try to figure that out. We've been over this ground several times. Hint: it may have something to do with the fact that you think of Adelson as a 'Bibi backer' rather than a 'Mitt backer'.

21 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 8:08:06pm

re: #19 Obdicut

You're serious, aren't you? You're seriously asking SFZ if she supports Bibi in general because she didn't condemn him in this specific instance? That's your actual mode of thinking?

Wowzers.

Destro has decided that Researchok, SFZ, Yours Truly, and a number of others here are all malefactors when it comes to the Middle East because we advocate positions he disagrees with. One of these positions is that anything Benjamin Netanyahu does must be seen in the worst possible light. Saying that one would approach any political development with the same words or actions as Netanyahu makes a person a "Bibi supporter" in Destro's eyes. It's just what he does.

22 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Nov 5, 2012 9:06:56pm

re: #21 Dark_Falcon

Destro would fit in quite well with the Israel bashers here in the Bay Area. Heck, the ISM and Al Awda would love to have such a person dedicated to fact twisting and innuendo.


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