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1 War On Music  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 11:01:40am
2 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 11:15:58am

re: #1 War On Music

Four More Years - 3 More Months

Who do you think is going to unseat Likud? I'd be delighted to see a Labor victory, but I don't know if it's in the cards this year.

3 Bob Levin  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 11:47:20am

There is a special on the History Channel, or H2, entitled "It's Good to be the President". These moments are so staged, that perhaps only Reagan had the skills to pull these off in one take. This video obviously needed several takes, but it seems that they really wanted to get to the hamburgers.

The video says nothing, except to those who really need it to say something.

4 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:21:09pm

re: #3 Bob Levin

This video doesn't say much. But Bibi's alliance with the wildest of the far right, his campaigning against Obama, and his promoting of stupid, antisemitic fucks like Glenn Beck have certainly raised an awkward barrier between him and the President of the US. He let himself get far too involved in US politics, and now at home he's made a coalition with the same sort of raving nutjobs that Romney tried to appeal to.

It is not a good situation for Israel. Luckily, I think Obama is above being in any way petty about this, but goddamn was Bibi being a horse's ass when he decided engaging in US politics was a good idea.

5 Destro  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:26:45pm

re: #4 Obdicut

Luckily, I think Obama is above being in any way petty about this,

That is why "we" (and by we I mean nations in general) have professional diplomatic staffs that don't change with elections.

6 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:30:48pm

re: #5 Destro

Luckily, I think Obama is above being in any way petty about this,

That is why "we" (and by we I mean nations in general) have professional diplomatic staffs that don't change with elections.

Really awkward use of the word 'we'. It'd be easier for you just to say it the way you did at the end-- This is why nations have professional diplomatic staff that don't change with the elections.

However, our diplomatic staff can only sooth over so much. While I don't think that Obama is going to hold a grudge, Bibi still really violated a taboo by showing such favoritism in the US election. In addition, his alliance with the scary-fucker brigade of the Israeli left doesn't make his administration very akin to Obama's. In equal parts, the damage comes from Bibi's stupid decision that he could paddle his feet in US politics and his alliance with dangerous radicals.

7 Bob Levin  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:38:06pm

re: #4 Obdicut

I suppose we see two different Bibis. I see his political alliances as simply political alliances, a means to get elected. Glenn Beck's Israeli tour was a disaster for Glenn Beck, because no one showed up. No crowds, nothing. Beck asked for Metzger's blessing, Metzger said--I'll see if my schedule allowed it. It didn't allow it.

I didn't see evidence of Bibi getting involved in this election, other than the possibility of owing Romney a favor--to a point. That point being the very pragmatic possibility that Romney would lose, and it's a bad idea to become actively partisan in a US election. Bibi was hyped to show up at some silly Florida event, and he didn't show up. Even if an Israeli official did show up, I suspect that was for the purposes of tourism--a factor to which it's difficult to give too much weight.

All of that aside, the combination of Netenyahu and Fischer has proved to be incredibly successful as Israel has avoided the economic death traps of other economies, it has moved into the classification of a developed economy, it's scientific and technological achievements are numerous. The entire nation, the size of a city, has become somewhat of a research institute for the world. Foreign investment has increased, venture capitalists flock to Israel, and Israel is on the verge of entering the natural gas market. I see Bibi as presiding over these developments. This is some resume.

8 Destro  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:42:31pm

re: #6 Obdicut

Really awkward use of the word 'we'. It'd be easier for you just to say it the way you did at the end-- This is why nations have professional diplomatic staff that don't change with the elections.

It was a jest since you commented on me using "We" before. You probably forgot.......that was a jest / zing also - get it? Forget it! -----

9 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:57:29pm

re: #7 Bob Levin

suppose we see two different Bibis. I see his political alliances as simply political alliances, a means to get elected.

Then you're just denying reality. It may be to get him elected-- it also serves to give power to the maniacs. Denying this is not useful. It's getting scary how forcedly some people are trying to look away from the problem.

Glenn Beck's Israeli tour was a disaster for Glenn Beck, because no one showed up. No crowds, nothing. Beck asked for Metzger's blessing, Metzger said--I'll see if my schedule allowed it. It didn't allow it.

But Bibi gave him a medal and promoted him. Promoted a guy who raved about antisemitic literature being awesome. Remember?

I didn't see evidence of Bibi getting involved in this election, other than the possibility of owing Romney a favor--to a point.

Again, to me this is just turning your head away. It's openly acknowledged that he cast his lot in with Romney. How much of that was for Romney and how much for Sheldon, who knows.

Bibi was hyped to show up at some silly Florida event, and he didn't show up.

No, he was hyped to send a tape to it. Instead, he sent a senior administration official. Which was incredibly unseemly and stupid of him.

Even if an Israeli official did show up, I suspect that was for the purposes of tourism--a factor to which it's difficult to give too much weight.

Ah, so nobody went and if they did it wasn't a big deal because tourism.

For fuck's sake.

This is some resume.

Do you give a single shit about the insanity that he's allying himself with? How can you just ignore it?

10 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:58:03pm

re: #8 Destro

Really awkward use of the word 'we'. It'd be easier for you just to say it the way you did at the end-- This is why nations have professional diplomatic staff that don't change with the elections.

It was a jest since you commented on me using "We" before. You probably forgot.......that was a jest / zing also - get it?

Sorry, I just assumed you were misusing we again.

11 Bob Levin  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:09:01pm

re: #9 Obdicut

So, if I place your view of the situation as secondary, I'm turning my head the other way, and if you place my view of the situation as secondary, you're in touch with the deeper reality?

The other aspect of reality is that in Israel, being a democracy, a coalition democracy, the government could change at a moment's notice. I'm not particular who wins--but damned if I let these demonizations pass off unchallenged.

Regarding Beck, it is very difficult to decide how to deal with a psychotic. I used to work on a magazine called Telos. Telos and everyone associated with it were the demons of this guy, Lyndon LaRouche. Now, how did this happen? Because LaRouche submitted an article to Telos way back when that was rejected. Knowing the editor, it was probably rejected with enthusiasm. So how do you deal with a rabble rousing psychotic? It's a roll of dice.

12 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:35:12pm

re: #11 Bob Levin

So, if I place your view of the situation as secondary, I'm turning my head the other way, and if you place my view of the situation as secondary, you're in touch with the deeper reality?

No clue what you just said. None.

The other aspect of reality is that in Israel, being a democracy, a coalition democracy, the government could change at a moment's notice. I'm not particular who wins--but damned if I let these demonizations pass off unchallenged.

What are you talking about? You're not particular who governs Israel?

Why not? Isn't that, y'know, important?

Regarding Beck, it is very difficult to decide how to deal with a psychotic.

Here's a hint: Don't give him a medal and call him a friend of Israel. Especially not when he promotes rabid anti-semites.

13 Bob Levin  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:50:17pm

re: #12 Obdicut

No clue what you just said. None.

It means, there's only room for one way to see things, your way.

What are you talking about? You're not particular who governs Israel?

Why not? Isn't that, y'know, important?

Since I don't vote there, I have to trust the Israeli people. I don't have a problem doing that. And it's worked thus far.

Here's a hint: Don't give him a medal and call him a friend of Israel. Especially not when he promotes rabid anti-semites.

I don't think you're aware of the complexities of such psychoses.

14 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:10:30pm

re: #13 Bob Levin

Once again, when all else fails, it's time to trundle out the old "it's complicated - you wouldn't understand" line.

15 Bob Levin  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:25:35pm

re: #14 Ayeless in Ghazi

How about this? It's quite simple, but you still wouldn't understand, oh one who can't comprehend anything longer than a tweet.

As far as Obdicut, I didn't say that he couldn't understand. I said, at the moment, he doesn't. And the way to learn, unfortunately, is through experience. And I wouldn't wish him that experience.

16 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:44:32pm

re: #15 Bob Levin

How about this? It's quite simple, but you still wouldn't understand, oh one who can't comprehend anything longer than a tweet.

Random insults based on nothing signify nothing but butthurt.

So it's quite simple - but you can't provide anyone here with anything remotely approaching an explanation.

Yeah I know - if only we could see with the ineffable magic of your experience...all would become clear. That's all you ever seem to have in the way of an explanation; it's wearing pretty thin.

17 Bob Levin  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:56:25pm

re: #16 Ayeless in Ghazi

Did you read your own post? I regard that [number 14] as a random insult, and all I did was to change a few words, but the grammar is all yours.

So what do want an explanation to, the intrapsychic workings of Glenn Beck? Here's what you do. Enroll in the university and take many undergraduate and post-graduate courses in psychology. Then get a gig working on a locked ward. Cause, you know, I can't provide all that in 4000 characters.

There are parts of life that do require some matter of expertise. But what's expertise compared to a reasonable thoughtless opinion. The thoughtless opinion wins every time, right?

If you think it's wearing thin, don't go to the clothing store. #Your choice.

18 Bob Levin  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:57:01pm

Whoops, that's not a link to anything.

19 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:04:50pm

re: #17 Bob Levin

Did you read your own post? I regard that [number 14] as a random insult, and all I did was to change a few words, but the grammar is all yours.

Except mines was not a random insult, but an accurate description of one your favourite escapes from an argument. You've used it many times before.

So what do want an explanation to, the intrapsychic workings of Glenn Beck? Here's what you do. Enroll in the university and take many undergraduate and post-graduate courses in psychology. Then get a gig working on a locked ward. Cause, you know, I can't provide all that in 4000 characters.

You did all this and still apparently don't understand the word 'psychotic'? Impressive.

Here's a clue - it's not synonymous with the word "asshole".

PS it's interesting that you arrogantly assume that everyone else's experience must be inferior to yours. Does it ever occur to you that it might be you who needs to learn from the experience of others?

20 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:06:54pm

re: #18 Bob Levin

Whoops, that's not a link to anything.

Kind of appropriate really.

21 Bob Levin  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:12:22pm
Does it ever occur to you that it might be you who needs to learn from the experience of others?

I have to run, because I have to get to a music lesson. See, I'm the student.
In the meantime, list your experiences that I need to learn from. I'm all eyes.
You can tell the difference between and experience and an opinion, yes?

22 researchok  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:12:26pm

As someone with a slight working interest in these affairs, I can say with some degree of certainty that what we see on the front pages has very little to do with reality. These fables serve domestic political needs.

Neither Netanyahu or Obama are at each others throats. That Hollywood like scenario only benefits those with a particular agenda and allows both leaders and nations to work together without scutiny. The agendistas are kept sidelined and preoccupied.

The same was true of the US/UK kerfuffle after Obama's election.

In both instances leaders of both Israel and the UK made clear in no uncertain terms their respective relationships were rock solid and inviolate. It is only the agendistas who furiously want that to be not true.

Notwithstanding the breathless media, the Canadian government was not offended when George W Bush made his first foreign trip to Mexico instead of Canada. The Mexicans were not offended when Obama made his first foreign trip to Canada.

For decades, irrespective of political parties, Israel, America and for that matter NATO and other nations (including some Arab and Gulf states) have shared intelligence and other information when necessary. Why? Because it is in everyone's best interest to do so. Along those same lines, it is those nations best interest to convey a certain message for both domestic and foreign consumption.

Welcome to the world of grown ups.

Here's a not so secret secret: There is no peace treaty in the Middle East because at the moment a peace treaty is no one's best interest

A peace treaty with Israel and the Palestinians isn't simply a treaty between two parties. That treaty would upend the entire region. If you think the Arab Spring is unsettling imagine what would happen in these nations the morning after a peace treaty. The region would explode. The powers that be know that and there is an unwritten agreement- a low level confrontation with low level weapons (as one Arab writer wryly noted, the Syrians were willing to fight Israel down to the very last Palestinian)

Iran's nuclear program and Syria's chemical/bio capability and her political instability have changed the equation.

A peace treaty with Israel would open up a global floodgate of aid to a new Palestinians state. It would also end corruption- the agreed upon price to maintain the status quo. To understand the magnitude of that, consider this: In the 1980's Arafat already had billions.

When it comes to the Middle East, what matters is what you don't see.

23 researchok  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:18:50pm

And to be clear, clarity can be hard to come by for anyone and everyone.

Simply disagreeing does not an enemy make.

I don't care what anyone says- next time I go I home I want a beer or 12 with Jimmah.

We just don't argue enough when we're sober.

And yes, Levin is also right.

24 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:29:54pm

re: #21 Bob Levin

I have to run, because I have to get to a music lesson. See, I'm the student.
In the meantime, list your experiences that I need to learn from. I'm all eyes.
You can tell the difference between and experience and an opinion, yes?

How about according people you disagree with that respect without arrogantly demanding that they 'list' their experiences for you first? And how about making real arguments instead of resorting to nebulous claims about your experience, while knowing nothing about your opponents?

25 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:33:08pm

re: #23 researchok

And to be clear, clarity can be hard to come by for anyone and everyone.

Simply disagreeing does not an enemy make.

I don't care what anyone says- next time I go I home I want a beer or 12 with Jimmah.

We just din't argue enough when we're sober.

And yes, Levin is also right.

Is he fuck. He's talking out of his arse as usual.

ps I have a five beer limit ;-)

26 researchok  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:41:12pm

re: #25 Ayeless in Ghazi

ps I have a five beer limit ;-)

Yes, but that is waived because a) I'll be buying, b) you want to be a good host and c) there is no guarantee after 5 beers we'll be arguing with enough intensity.

Also, pasties. I want real Scottish pasties (I believe the Welsh invented pasties like I believe the Irish invented bagpipes).

27 War On Music  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 5:54:15pm

re: #2 SanFranciscoZionist

Normally, I would only support the Arab List or Hadash out of principle (more ideologically aligned with groups coming out of the ashes of Matzpen).

I would say the world needs an ABN campaign. I saw a very good article that argued that Tzipi Livni was waiting to see who won the American election before throwing herself into a run. I think a center or center-left coalition is needed.

The Labour party is not going to win and I think that's a good thing. Yacimovich is a coward who has built herself on trying to airbrush the occupation out of existence, on pretending that “there’s no left and right anymore,” that it’s all economics now. And when it comes to the Palestinians, the less said, the better. The status quo is fine with them - but the world can no longer live with status quo and the incessant drumbeat to war.

28 Bob Levin  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 6:05:11pm

re: #24 Ayeless in Ghazi

I disagree with many people here on many issues, but you wouldn't know that, because I defer to them having a reasonable point of view, and the appropriate experience.

Tell me how you are going to tell Jewish people that they can't recognize antisemitism? That, to me, is arrogant and dismissive.

Let's leave it at that, and you can go have some pub time with researchok.

29 researchok  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 6:34:41pm

re: #5 Destro

I see you wanted to play again.

Your call.

30 Destro  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 6:49:08pm

re: #29 researchok

I see you wanted to play again.

Your call.

#5 was was an inside joke directed at Obdicut. You still playing at trolling me? How cute.

31 researchok  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 6:50:53pm

re: #29 researchokre: #30 Destro

I just used comment to reply to you.

When you ignore me, I ignore you.

You wanted to play.

Like I said, your call.

It's interesting- you're the only one so many have a problem with.

Just you. Only you.

32 Destro  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 7:29:51pm

re: #31 researchok

re: #30 Destro

I just used comment to reply to you.

When you ignore me, I ignore you.

You wanted to play.

Like I said, your call.

It's interesting- you're the only one so many have a problem with.

Just you. Only you.

Gasp! Some get me! And some don't. Those that don't get me I don't want to get me. You get what I am saying?

33 researchok  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 12:24:19am

re: #32 Destro

Yes, I get you.

You can't help yourself.

We get it.

34 Destro  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 9:13:43am

re: #33 researchok

Good morning, troll.

35 researchok  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 10:24:56am

re: #34 Destro

Good day, Honey (boo boo)

LOLOL


Like I said, I only respond.

Your call.

36 Destro  Fri, Nov 9, 2012 11:01:51pm

re: #35 researchok

Hi, troll. Here is me feeding your troll self: Honey Boo Boo. Jealous much? Is it because your posts don't attract any attention and you hate that mine did?

37 researchok  Fri, Nov 9, 2012 11:52:32pm

LOL@'original thinker'

LOL

OK, we'll play.

38 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Nov 10, 2012 4:19:56pm

researchok - please stop acting like some kind of stalkery weirdo regarding Destro. Because here outside of the little 'get destro!' club, that's how this stuff makes you look.

39 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Nov 10, 2012 4:22:17pm

Just to be totally clear btw - what I'm saying is that disagreement and even raised tempers - fine - but this shit? ugh.

40 researchok  Sat, Nov 10, 2012 4:33:54pm

Jimmah, I only respond.

There's more here than meets the eye, I'm afraid- a lot more, not the least of which is a pattern of deliberate deceit about what I had said and written on his part as well as virtually everything else.

In fact, he's the one with stalker like behavior. If he ignores me, I ignore him.

As you know, I have no trouble with anyone on here save him- and that can be said for others on here as as well.

You might want to consider addressing Destro as well- if he ignores me, I will ignore him.

The choice is and always has been, his. Unfortunately, he seems to be unable to control himself in that regard.

41 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Nov 10, 2012 4:50:25pm
In fact, he's the one with stalker like behavior. If he ignores me, I ignore him.

Ok, so how is destros no 5 directed at you? You responded with:

re: #5 Destro

I see you wanted to play again.

Your call.

42 researchok  Sat, Nov 10, 2012 4:59:15pm

re: #41 Ayeless in Ghazi

Because he initiated the exchange.

I have told him on numerous occasions I will respond- many times, in fact. And that is a matter of record.

This is not new.

And as I noted, he is the only one on here I and others- with whom there is a problem. His treatment of CL. SFZ, Alouette and others speaks for itself.

All the pivot and attacks can't change that reality.

I repeat- if he responds to me in any way, I will respond.

The story will come out.

43 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Nov 10, 2012 5:30:39pm
Because he initiated the exchange.

Nope. He posted this page and then you started haranguing him in what appears to be a very obviously and undeniably trollish way. Look up - it's all there in b&w.

I've been the subject of this sort of thing myself in the past on LGF.

And as I noted, he is the only one on here I and others- with whom there is a problem. His treatment of CL. SFZ, Alouette and others speaks for itself.

Come on. He got in a fight with CL but patched it up. As for the others - I don't recall seeing anything particularly heinous. It's LGF - disagreements happen.

The story will come out

If there's a story tell me it right now.

I remember a certain deranged freak who used to post here who was always alluding to terrible misdeeds by myself but who was never able to specifically divulge what in the name of fuck they were, or provide any evidence of them, and when pressed - by me - still refused to say what it was supposed to be, and merely imploded with an obscenity-strewn tantrum and got banned.

So when someone here tells me that there is a story that proves how awful someone is - but for some mysterious reason we are not allowed to see it yet - to say it doesn't impress me would be a major understatement.

44 researchok  Sat, Nov 10, 2012 5:46:00pm

Jimmah, he initiated this last exchange.

See numbers 34 and 35.

Jimmah, I have never mislead you in any way.

I will go out on a limb and even defend those with whom I disagree if I believe they are getting an unfair shake.

I have plenty of disagreements with people here- but they are honest differences of opinions. I do no have adversarial relationships with them.

No, without getting into details, he has proven himself to be a liar, a bigot, a plagiarist and more.

As for his apology to CL (and note he felt the need he had to apologize) all I will say is, 'That's nice'

When he clearly and unequivocally apologizes to SFZ, Alouette, myself (he deliberately and consistently lied about me, what I had said and written) well, I'll consider the matter closed.

Lastly, I neither gossip or post 'stories'.

Let me repeat- I have I have never mislead you in any way- and I'm not going to start now.

And by the way, these exchanges started long before the posting of this page. I'll leave it to Destro to tell you why I responded to this post of his.

Let's see if he tells you the truth.

45 Destro  Sat, Nov 10, 2012 10:23:21pm

re: #38 Ayeless in Ghazi

researchok - please stop acting like some kind of stalkery weirdo regarding Destro. Because here outside of the little 'get destro!' club, that's how this stuff makes you look.

There is a club? Or a cult?


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Drug Companies Want Your Money
Two thematically-related stories on the BBC at the moment: UK drug company Glaxo 'paid bribes to Polish doctors' UK drug company GlaxoSmithKline is facing a criminal investigation in Poland for allegedly bribing doctors, BBC Panorama has discovered. Tamiflu: Millions wasted on flu drug, claims major report Hundreds of millions of pounds may have been wasted on a drug for flu that works no better ...

5 days ago
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 Frank says:

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.