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1 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 12:30:07pm

Good Page and good news. Except for Republicans.

2 Destro  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 1:06:20pm

Never heard of "race realists" but it makes sense now that we saw them throw out all those racist code words out.

3 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 1:22:19pm

re: #2 Destro

Racist code words aren't particular to race realists. The difference is that the 'race realists' try to comfort themselves with the idea that their bigotry about race is scientific. The Bell Curve is the most prominent example of race realist bullshit.

4 Destro  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 1:29:04pm

re: #3 Obdicut

Racist code words aren't particular to race realists. The difference is that the 'race realists' try to comfort themselves with the idea that their bigotry about race is scientific. The Bell Jar is the most prominent example of race realist bullshit.

Yes, the Bell Jar...that is something I had not thought or heard about in a while. I thought it went away as it was discredited but I guess it is still out there.

5 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 1:31:29pm

That's pretty amazing. I remember Asian Americans being real tight for Gore and Bush. I really think the GOP is paying a heavy price for their xenophobia here. Likewise, I think the Dems are equally profiting from having an inclusive party. I do think culture plays a role here too but I really think how the two parties sell themselves plays a big role here.

6 RadicalModerate  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 1:47:33pm

The term "race-realist" is just a new coat of paint that white supremacists have slapped on their rhetoric, to try to make it more appealing to the casual observer. Just scratch the surface of what the groups represent, and you'll still see the same violent underpinnings as they've had for over a hundred years.

Just take a look at sites like American Renaissance, Stormfront, VDARE, or National Vanguard for examples of this.

7 Destro  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 2:00:54pm

researchok defending racial realism by downdinging me? WTF?

8 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 2:08:13pm

re: #7 Destro

researchok defending racial realism by downdinging me? WTF?

You know that's not what he's doing. he downdings a lot of what you say because of the personal vendetta you guys have going on. I think it's silly of him to do, but it's also silly for you to pretend he's defending race realism.

9 Destro  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 2:09:39pm

re: #3 Obdicut

re: #6 RadicalModerate

The term "race-realist" is just a new coat of paint that white supremacists

I am in debt to Obdicut for informing me of this "race-realist" term. These pseudo-scientific terms are used to hide racist intents I find. One could be fooled into thinking for example the "Bell Curve" was true science when it was not, etc. and that is how the modern racist movement has attempted to enter the 21st century when DNA science shows the lack of anything called "pure blood" or other pseudo-scientific crap terms the racist right was pushing in the last (20th) century.

10 Destro  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 2:17:26pm

re: #8 Obdicut

I have never down dinged his/her opinion out of spite if I agree with it.

11 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 2:17:51pm

re: #9 Destro

Racism has had pseudo-science in it from the very beginning, back to the calipers and whatshasit. The biggest point I was making is that in their warped view of race reality, the 'race realists' can't deny the success of Asian-Americans, and in the past have actually celebrated it since Asians used to break 50/50 politically, basically. So 'race realists' used Asians as their shield, pointing out that they didn't even have white people at the top of their stupid, unscientific totem pole.

Nowadays, Asians are going overwhelmingly for the Democrats. Obviously their race hasn't changed, and so race realists are going to have to engage in some more convoluted thinking to explain this, why the group of the most successful and bootstrappy minorities disagrees so vehemently with the GOP.

Or, to put it simply: If race realism were real, then the race realists should take note of the politics of Asians and vote for the Democrats.

12 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 2:18:59pm

re: #10 Destro

I have never down dinged his/her opinion out of spite if I agree with it.

That's sweet of you. But you know that reasearchok downdings your posts on a personal basis, so claiming he's doing so to defend 'race realism' is silly bordering on eye-rollingly goofy.

13 Destro  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 2:26:38pm

re: #11 Obdicut

Everything you said threw up reminder bells - I remember right wing talk in the Clinton era that the "Asians" (and they meant Koreans and Indian shop owners, etc) would become Republicans because they were hard working and not lazy, etc. and why Bobby Jindal and Gov Nikki Haley (Asian Indian background) are seen as such a big deal.....

14 Destro  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 2:27:50pm

re: #12 Obdicut

That was the implication I got. I don't know the guy/gal from Adam.

15 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 2:29:13pm

re: #14 Destro

That was the implication I got. I don't know the guy/gal from Adam.

Um, you've had conversations with him about him downdinging you serially. For someone who accuses others of losing their memory, you sure lose track of stuff a lot.

16 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 2:38:57pm

re: #3 Obdicut

Racist code words aren't particular to race realists. The difference is that the 'race realists' try to comfort themselves with the idea that their bigotry about race is scientific. The Bell Curve is the most prominent example of race realist bullshit.

They have unofficially made "The Bell Curve" their Bible.
Sirens go off when I hear the term innate ability.

17 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 2:40:38pm

re: #14 Destro

That was the implication I got. I don't know the guy/gal from Adam.

Doesn't matter that you don't know him in real life, he knows your persona here on LGF and is offended by the way he feels you behaved. I understand that you may not see yourself as behaving in such a way as to merit those downdings, but Researchok does see you as having done so.

Note: I'm carefully not saying who is ultimately right or wrong, I'm just explain why something is occurring.

18 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 2:43:22pm

Excellent observation BTW Obdi.

19 lostlakehiker  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 3:07:26pm
There’s a lot of room to debate why this is— the article goes into some of it . I think it’s a mix of education, cultural upbringing that stresses communalism, and a knowledge that the GOP is very much a white-conservative-Christian organisation.

And caution. A red precinct in the middle of a blue city is a red flag. Why go looking for trouble? You have nothing to gain because Republicans flip on the subject of affirmative action when it's a question of Asians with higher test scores, vs. Little Johnny. All their principles of non-discrimination go out the window. You have nothing to gain because in your city, Republicans will never win an election anyhow. You only provoke your neighbors.

20 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 3:32:06pm

re: #19 lostlakehiker

And caution. A red precinct in the middle of a blue city is a red flag. Why go looking for trouble? You have nothing to gain because Republicans flip on the subject of affirmative action when it's a question of Asians with higher test scores, vs. Little Johnny. All their principles of non-discrimination go out the window. You have nothing to gain because in your city, Republicans will never win an election anyhow. You only provoke your neighbors.

What are you saying? That Asians vote for Democrats because they fear retribution from their neighbors if they don't? You're nuts.

Also, if you read what race realists write, you will see that they actually don't 'flip on the subject of affirmative action when it's a question of Asians with higher test scores, vs. Little Johnny'. They claim Asians are genetically superior to other races, possibly even including whites.

21 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 3:51:25pm

re: #19 lostlakehiker

A red precinct in the middle of a blue city is a red flag.

To who?

Are you doing okay, man? You seem to have adopted conspiracy theories as a main mode of living.

You have nothing to gain because in your city, Republicans will never win an election anyhow. You only provoke your neighbors.

Do you seriously think that Asians all live in one county or something? Chinatown isn't that big, dude. Asians live scattered all throughout San Francisco. For your conspiracy theory to work, Asians would have to live in such high concentrations that they were identifiable (by these mysterious someones looking for 'red flags') as voting one way or another simply by numbers. Votes are reported by county, which normally includes an entire city. So if Asians are voting in high enough numbers to be politically identifiable, they'd also, you know, be in charge of local politics.

22 Destro  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 4:05:34pm

re: #15 Obdicut

That guy and I had a heated exchange because he accused Islam - like the whole religion - as being anti-Semitic and he supports Bibi Netanyahu in our ding battles so excuse me for not assuming he might be agreeing with my statement on racism.

23 Destro  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 4:06:58pm

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

The persona I know of him is he was push border line Pamela Geller anti-Muslim shit on here and called him on it.

24 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 4:33:31pm

On an tangential but relevant note, Obama won the Catholic vote 50 - 48.

Maybe it's the evangelicals who are the Borg collective. Because it seems Catholics just don't follow orders well. :)

25 cinesimon  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 4:38:12pm

re: #19 lostlakehiker

Truly bizarre. Your understanding of those different from you - surprise surprise - seems ripped from the pages of a Glen Beck-transcribed fantasy. Grow up.

26 cinesimon  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 4:40:09pm

'Communitarian'. Love that term. Happy to be a Communitarian.
I remember lots and lots of republicans accusing me of being a commie and spitting on the graves of America's founding fathers because I believed in the society they did. They, too, were Communitarian.

27 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 5:07:56pm

re: #22 Destro

No, you're not excused. you throw accusations of bigotry around without backing them up routinely. It's shitty and boring and you should stop doing it, along with all the other stupid shit you do.

28 Destro  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 5:12:31pm

re: #27 Obdicut

Show me one accusation of bigotry I can't back up and what have I said that was shitty? though I appreciate your mother hen routine.

29 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 5:37:33pm

I have some good friends who are Americans born of Vietnamese and Korean parents. Neither my friends nor their parents appreciated that birther shit one bit.

African-Americans weren't the only people who took birtherism personally, children of immigrants didn't like it either. Lots of Asian-Americans get asked "where are you from?" because people don't look at them and think they look American. I'll bet they could easily imagine some form of birtherism being directed at them.

30 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 5:51:10pm

re: #28 Destro

Show me one accusation of bigotry I can't back up

You accused SFZ of hating Palestinians. Never backed it up.

Go ahead and do so.

31 dragonath  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 7:15:32pm

I'd be curious to see if any non-Christian Asian-Americans have won any major Republican race because members of this group have been in this country for generations.

32 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 7:21:32pm

I think that the Religious Right scared them off of the Republican brand.

33 Timmeh  Thu, Nov 8, 2012 9:44:53pm

Asian-Americans are kind of like American Jews politically, no?

Small minority but upper income and tend to lean to the left in their politics.

Obama won 69% of the Jewish vote this time (sorry Bibi and Sheldon!), not far from the 73% of Asians.

34 Destro  Fri, Nov 9, 2012 10:54:07pm

re: #30 Obdicut

You accused SFZ of hating Palestinians. Never backed it up.

Go ahead and do so.

She is arguing that Palestinians can be disenfranchised from their lands.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

35 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 10, 2012 4:22:41am

re: #30 Obdicut

Hah, what a buffoon you are, Destro. You came back to downding the comment, but not to back up your pathetic allegation that SFZ is a bigot.

You really are a precious thing.

36 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 10, 2012 4:23:33am

re: #34 Destro

She is arguing that Palestinians can be disenfranchised from their lands.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Where? Don't just make assertions, actually show your work!

I can cite that thread and claim it shows you being bigoted against Palestinians. You need to actually prove it.

Go for it, champ!

37 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 10, 2012 4:25:44am

re: #34 Destro

By the way, Jewish is also an ethnic designation as well as a religious one. "Hebrews", aside from historical texts pre-Diaspora, is something more usually used by antisemites. For example, I'm an atheist, and I'm a Jew.

Why did you think that it was only a religious term? Surely you're used to the large number of atheist Jewish intellectuals being called, well, Jewish, right?

38 Kronocide  Sat, Nov 10, 2012 9:28:24am

Good thread, but I updinged for rijigger the bigotology

39 Destro  Sat, Nov 10, 2012 1:41:01pm

re: #37 Obdicut

Fair point in the English language there is no distinction for Jewish - probably because of the discrimination from the Middle Ages.

Since I don't accept religious explanations for humanities existence/origins I don't think or try not to think in religous terms for describing ethnicity.

40 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 11, 2012 6:20:30am

re: #39 Destro

Fair point in the English language there is no distinction for Jewish - probably because of the discrimination from the Middle Ages.

Just the middle ages? No clue what you're talking about here. Jew happens to be both a religious descriptor and an ethnic descriptor. Someone can be not at all ethnically Jewish and be religiously Jewish, and someone can be completely ethnically Jewish and not at all religiously Jewish.

Since I don't accept religious explanations for humanities existence/origins I don't think or try not to think in religous terms for describing ethnicity.

Complete non-sequitur. It's not a religious term for describing ethnicity, it's just a word that has multiple meanings. It always has. Back when Jew was a latin word, it meant someone from Judea literally, and conversationally someone from the ethnic group in Judea. It just happens at the time that ethnic and religious groups were almost entirely overlapping. This carried over to English and other usages; Jews who converted were still called Jews. Special names even were invented to call Jews who'd converted, to indicate Jewish ethnicity but Catholic religion.

You have still failed to show SFZ hating Palestinians. Making accusations of bigotry and failing to back them up is contemptible in the extreme and it weakens valid accusations of bigotry. Every time you do something stupidly hyperbolic like this you sink your credibilty a little bit more and make yourself all the easier to dismiss.

41 Destro  Sun, Nov 11, 2012 4:44:25pm

re: #40 Obdicut

The English language was formulated in the Middle Ages and their biases became such that "Jewish" is what is now used in the English language both for the religion and the ethnicity.

This is not the case in other parts of Europe like in Latin countries where I lived.

Read here:

Horwitz’s proposal to replace “Jew” or “Jewish” as an overall term with “Hebrew” is far from a new idea. Not only, in the 19th and early 20th centuries, was “Hebrew” vigorously promoted as a substitute for “Jew” in a number of countries, but in some of them it actually carried the day, as well. This was the case in Russia and Italy, where yevrei and ebreo became the standard words for “Jew.” The same thing wasn’t that far from happening in English, either. One only has to think of such American Jewish institutions as Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion, the Union of American Hebrew Congregations, the Hebrew Free Loan Society, the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society and so on to be reminded of how many Jews 100 years ago preferred being called “Hebrews” by Christian America.

Read more: [Link: forward.com...]

And I will start keep a file of all the time SFZ and others here mock the blocades, mock Rachell Corries death, etc, etc. If I am wrong about who I though was mocking Palestinain suffering in the occupied territories and the Gaza blockade, I will apologize.

42 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:51:45am

re: #41 Destro

The English language was formulated in the Middle Ages

This makes no fucking sense. The English language wasn't formulated in the Middle Ages. The spelling of it got codified and the pronunciation changed.

and their biases became such that "Jewish" is what is now used in the English language both for the religion and the ethnicity.

No, it's because words in English often have more than one meaning. Calling someone African, for example, can mean they come from Africa, or are from one of the peoples who are indigenous to Africa.

And I will start keep a file of all the time SFZ and others here mock the blocades, mock Rachell Corries death, etc, etc. If I am wrong about who I though was mocking Palestinain suffering in the occupied territories and the Gaza blockade, I will apologize.

You already should apologize, asshole. You're already throwing allegations around without proof. How fucking hard is it to realize that common decency is backing up your dumb shit before you say it?

And yeah, Jews at a certain point liked being called Hebrews. There's some leftovers from that. But just like you shouldn't call a black person a negro, even though the United Negro College fund exists, don't call Jews Hebrews, okay?

I have almost never met someone simultaneously as resistant to learning as you are and as persistently confident of his own intellectual and educational superiority.

43 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:53:21am

re: #41 Destro

By the way, mocking the flotilla isn't equivalent to hating Palestinians. You really should just strap a pair of goalposts onto your back, it'd make it easier for you to move them every five fucking seconds.

44 Destro  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 6:07:18pm

re: #42 Obdicut

One more time, dickhead. I am multi-lingual. I now in English it means "both" but its retarded to call a Buddist "Jewish" when it is really a religious identity rather than an ethnic one. Just because English has a racist legacy does not mean I have to keep using Jewish (a religous identifier) to describe an ethnic identity. Is it Italian or is it Catholic? And as for Negro. That has changed too, right? Whu identify people by color when it is more accurate to say African-American vs skin color.

Secondly, I remember what I read that I considered to be hate on the Palestinians by said perosn and just for you I will maintain a log for future reference of such incidents and if I come across the old posts that contradict my memory I will apologize. Till then go pound sand.

45 Destro  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 6:09:00pm

re: #43 Obdicut

Their mocking was the the idea that the Palestinians in Gaza were living in degraded conditions and that Israel was not engaging in collective punishment via the embargo.


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