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1 Cap'n Magic  Thu, Nov 15, 2012 6:34:05pm

This will not end well for all involved.

2 Bob Levin  Thu, Nov 15, 2012 6:57:32pm

Israel's plan, I would infer, is to destroy and very large percentage of the Hamas arsenal. We know this because they are attacking that arsenal. If ground troops are used, it will be for the purposes of drawing out the more advanced weapons--such as anti-tank missiles. If Hamas has 'Generals' who direct the attacks, the thousands of attacks against Israel, then they too are targets. That seems to be the entire operation in a nutshell.

I don't see a problem with this. Israel has also developed many sophisticated tools that can only be used for the purposes of saving civilian lives.

3 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 15, 2012 7:47:53pm

And in this chess game we have to know Israel is demonstrating and Iran is watching. This bellicose brinkmanship will cost many lives if cooler hearts do not prevail.

4 Destro  Thu, Nov 15, 2012 9:57:54pm

According to Bethlehem-based Ma’an news agency, 16 Palestinians have been killed since the start of the operation. At least two children, including an 11-month-old baby were among the casualties.

Same pattern as before. More Palestinians are killed than Israelis. I am saddened the Palestinians are held hostage to an ideology that fails to change results for them so they can live in peace.

I also point out the lopsided casualties to point out that what Israel is going through is tragic, it is not life threatening to the state of Israel and that while Hamas is a threat to individual Israelis, Hamas are more of a threat to their own fellow Palestinians who they always end up killing more of directly or indirectly.

5 Destro  Thu, Nov 15, 2012 10:00:13pm

re: #3 Daniel Ballard

And in this chess game we have to know Israel is demonstrating and Iran is watching. This bellicose brinkmanship will cost many lives if cooler hearts do not prevail.

Are you sure it is not Iran demonstrating to Israel and Israel watching a taste of what can happen if Iran turns up the volume of violence as retaliation for an Israeli strike? Chess is a Persian invention after all....

6 Bob Levin  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 12:11:51am

re: #5 Destro

Are you sure it is not Iran demonstrating to Israel and Israel watching a taste of what can happen if Iran turns up the volume of violence as retaliation for an Israeli strike? Chess is a Persian invention after all....

In English, it appears that you are saying that Hamas IS an extension of Iran, that Hamas IS fighting a proxy war on behalf of Iran, and that Iran IS making an existential attack on Israel--since all they have to do is turn up the volume just a little bit.

Is that what you mean to say? If so, they, oddly, you are probably in agreement with many in the Likud Party. The difference is that those in Likud do not think that this is a good thing.

7 Destro  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 6:31:09am

re: #6 Bob Levin

Actually, yes I do think that Hamas can be doing this at the request of Iran but they can also be doing it on their own.

The difference is that I think right wingers like to use war or the threat of war as a domestic political tool. Also, it is not a surprise to me that Iran would request an ally to do this as a pushback against Likud's constant threatening to bomb Iran

It was bad the USSR placed missiles in Cuba from an American perspective but the USA had nuclear missiles in Turkey first. So who started it?

The Cuban missile crisis ended when the USA got tough on the USSR but also de-escalated and removed the nuclear missiles from Turkey.

8 Buck  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 8:45:34am

My hope is that Israel will be allowed to finish this once and for all. No cease fire until Hamas surrenders.
Unlike previous efforts that stop just before winning, this time it is my hope that Israel will follow all the way through.

A complete eradication of hostile forces.

Hamas has not allowed a new election, they are not a democratic government.

In the same way that the Taliban was routed and removed from power, Hamas (a puppet of Iran) needs to be cleaned out and removed completely.

In order to discourage anyone else, any surviving Hamas leaders should be captured and tried for crimes against humanity and war crimes.

9 Bob Levin  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 1:21:54pm

re: #7 Destro

The difference is that I think right wingers like to use war or the threat of war as a domestic political tool. Also, it is not a surprise to me that Iran would request an ally to do this as a pushback against Likud's constant threatening to bomb Iran

Who in Israel is in favor of letting Iran develop working nuclear weapons? Anyone? Not even Labor.

And if you are so against Likud, I can tell you exactly how to run them out of office. Are you interested?

10 Destro  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 1:26:53pm

re: #9 Bob Levin

Who in Israel is in favor of letting Iran develop working nuclear weapons? Anyone? Not even Labor.

And if you are so against Likud, I can tell you exactly how to run them out of office. Are you interested?

You mean the Iranian nukes Israel's intel chiefs who contradict Netanhau are saying Iran is not working on and is not developing? Those phantom, but if they started then potentially down the road in a decade or more they will get maybe one nuke nukes?

Versus of course, Israel's hinted at WMD arsenal.....

11 Bob Levin  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 1:38:24pm

re: #10 Destro

Sigh. I asked you two questions. Who in Israel is in favor of letting Iran develop a nuclear arsenal? One.

If you are so dead set against Likud, I can tell you how to run them out of office. Are you interested in knowing how? Two.

12 Destro  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 8:56:38pm

re: #11 Bob Levin

I try not to answer straw man questions.

I am offering an explanation of why people who are weak and aggreaved (and the Palestinians in this case are the weak ones here in a fight with Israel) resort to extremism and asymetrical warfare.

The Russian revolutionary left when it was fighting the Czarist autocracy had a phrase which has become the operating philiosphy of pretty much every guerilla movement "the worse the better", and that is what Hamas is doing. The worst thing that can happen to repressive regimes like North Korea, Iran, Hamas is for things to get better.

China's Communist Party is now more under threat than anytime since Chiang Kai-Shek all because Chinese are finding freedom through prosperity.

The notion that Israel will destroy Hamas in some sort of military attack is nonsense. It is what Hamas wants. Israel would have been better off fight Hamas by opening up the embargo and getting all those unemployed young men used as cannon fodder by Hamas a job catering to vactationing Europeans.

I swear, Europeans will vacation anywhere, even war zones. Yemen, off the coast of Somalia, you name it. I bet that would do more to end rocket attacks on Israel than what Netanyahu's kooks can think up.

13 Flavia  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 10:11:36pm

re: #12 Destro

I am offering an explanation of why people who are weak and aggreaved (and the Palestinians in this case are the weak ones here in a fight with Israel) resort to extremism and asymetrical warfare.

If they're so desperate, why don't they follow through on the peace initiatives they've signed? If they're so weak, why hasn't peace been forced on them?

There already are vacation amenities in Gaza -

[Link: www.maannews.net...]
[Link: www.l5ma.com...] (this is an Arabic forum, but the picture says "Gaza Mall" plain as day; it's the only NON Israeli source I could find for the mall - I wonder why that is?)
[Link: www.grandpalace.ps...]
[Link: www.rootsclub.ps...]

Why haven't the rockets stopped?

14 Buck  Sat, Nov 17, 2012 2:09:20pm

re: #10 Destro

You mean the Iranian nukes Israel's intel chiefs who contradict Netanhau are saying Iran is not working on and is not developing?

About 8 times in the past few months I have shown you that this is not true. There is no Israel Intel Chief that says Iran is not working on and is not developing nukes.

It has become the worse sort of lie. You keep saying, even though you know it is not true.

Sometimes you claim "The Israeli Defense Minister himself said Iran has not yet started a nuclear weapons program. "

That has been shown to be a lie by both myself and Lawhawk

getting all those unemployed young men used as cannon fodder by Hamas a job catering to vactationing Europeans.

With the additional benefit of vacationing in a Jew free zone.

15 Bob Levin  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 4:15:22am

re: #12 Destro

I try not to answer straw man questions.

Actually you try not answer any questions at all.

I think the phrase you really want is 'slippery slope' questions. I don't even know what a straw man question is.

However, I did ask you a slippery slope question. It happens to be a legitimate question, though, the one regarding Netenyahu, the man you desperately need to be in office. After all, who could you hate if a Labor candidate were Prime Minister? How could you justify your Israel hating with a Labor candidate in office and Ha'aretz constantly singing his/her praises?

You wouldn't have anyone to hide behind.

16 Buck  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 9:51:13am

re: #15 Bob Levin

How could you justify your Israel hating with a Labor candidate in office and Ha'aretz constantly singing his/her praises?

Haters like him always find a way. In fact Destro has been clear he thinks all governments are criminal.

17 Destro  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 7:47:27pm

re: #13 Flavia

You can dress it up all you want but the idea that Israel is the weak party here is laughable.

18 Destro  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 7:53:34pm

re: #16 Buck

All power to the people.

19 Destro  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 7:56:06pm

re: #15 Bob Levin

I don't hate Israel, dick head. I am pretty sure I hate that scumbag Netanyahu who lobbied for the USA invading Iraq.

20 Destro  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 7:57:48pm

re: #14 Buck

[Link: transcripts.cnn.com...]

BLITZER: What -- what does that mean, that the ayatollah has not given the order to build a nuclear bomb?

BARAK: It's something technical. He did not tell his people start and build it -- a weapon on -- an explodable device. We think that we understand why he -- the -- he does not give this order.

21 Bob Levin  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 8:18:53pm

re: #19 Destro

I am pretty sure I hate that scumbag Netanyahu who lobbied for the USA invading Iraq.

In what capacity, a private citizen? Or was he Prime Minister? Or perhaps he held another office? Do you know?

22 Destro  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 9:38:33pm

re: #21 Bob Levin

In what capacity, a private citizen? Or was he Prime Minister? Or perhaps he held another office? Do you know?

As a mother fucking unapologetic mouthpiece for a war of choice.

Iraq 2002, Iran 2012: Compare and contrast Netanyahu's speeches

The arguments are the same, the intonation is the same, even the advisers are the same.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

23 Bob Levin  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 9:47:25pm

re: #22 Destro

I really don't know what you'll do if he loses. Have you thought that far ahead? He won't be in office forever.

24 Destro  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 10:33:42pm

re: #23 Bob Levin

I will do the samething I did when his buddy and fellow scumbag, Romney lost.

25 Flavia  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:46:57pm

re: #17 Destro

You can dress it up all you want but the idea that Israel is the weak party here is laughable.

Sidestep, evade. Or was that just a flat-out dodge? You insisted that they were "weak & aggravated". I am pointing out that they obviously don't need to be that, because it's obvious that when they want to, they can build things, instead of whining about a situation that they brought on themselves.

26 Flavia  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:48:59pm

re: #21 Bob Levin

In what capacity, a private citizen? Or was he Prime Minister? Or perhaps he held another office? Do you know?

Does it matter? There's nothing wrong with one world leader asking another for help, especially if he trying to benefit even more people in the long-run. It's not like Obama was going to go along with anything that he thought was bad for us!

27 Bob Levin  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 3:55:31am

re: #26 Flavia

I ask Destro things like that, because he often writes before he's in command of the facts. It's possible that D heard Fox interview private citizen Bibi--who was supporting the US in whatever decision they would make. Israel, as everyone knows, would have preferred the US deal with terrorism through Iran, not Iraq. But no, Netenyahu wasn't lobbying the US to invade Iraq.

But like I'm going to spend two days on this point with Destro? Nope.


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