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1 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 2:48:24pm

The first example might be a guy who actually was injured, since the tape was edited. The second example-- using Syrian casualties and claiming they're Palestinians-- is contemptible.

However, you also should accept that there will be civilian casualties, including children. Please do not fall into the opposite trap of declaring everything fake. Israelis and Palestinian citizens are both dying. Children are dying. It's important to acknowledge that.

2 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 3:13:43pm

In the first video, it is the same guy -- but there are several edits, and you cannot assume that those separate clips are in chronological order. It's kind of ridiculous to do so, in fact, because the edits are extremely obvious and it's very clear that these are different scenes edited together.

As for Aussie Dave, he and his co-writer Brian of London are also supporters of Pamela Geller and her alliances with the far right thugs of the English Defence League, so I don't think it's too surprising that he's rushing to judgment on something like this. It's what they do.

3 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 3:20:01pm

To be clear: there have been cases of faked injuries in the past, that were credibly documented. This is not one of them.

4 sliv_the_eli  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 3:48:38pm

re: #1 Obdicut

We had an exchange about this the other day. I have stated before, but will reiterate, I do not take any innocent casualties, on either side lightly. I weep for the innocent who are killed and injured on both sides.

However, it remains the fact that the Israelis do not create fake footage of people supposedly injured or killed in order to create propaganda films and tug on the heartstrings of the gullible. That is a practice that has been regularly practiced by the Palestinians and has been documented on numerous occasions.

With respect to the specific video, I am not sure if you are suggesting that the first video was edited to make it more favorable to Israel. However, given that the video was clearly shot by someone in the Gaza Strip, it was almost certainly taken by a local Arab who either works directly for or as a freelancer providing materials to foreign media. It is therefore almost certainly not the case that the cameraman edited the "tape" to make the resulting shot more favorable to the pro-Israel position. Similarly, the footage was aired by the BBC, a news organization that was found by its own internal ombudsman to exhibit anti-Israel, not pro-Israel bias, in its reporting.

As for what it actually shows, you are correct that the footage was edited. However, the two parts of it were clearly taken within a very short time of each other and, from what I observe of the way he walks, moves and carries himself, if the guy in the tan jacket is actually injured, I'm Santa Claus.

5 sliv_the_eli  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 3:56:42pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

To be clear: there have been cases of faked injuries in the past, that were credibly documented. This is not one of them.

Charles: I'm not sure on what basis you make that statement other than the identity of the person who posted the clip -- which, by the way, is a clip aired by the BBC, not the blogger's own recreation of events. Unless the BBC is suddenly editing their footage to portray the Palestinians in a bad light in this regard, the video shows what it shows, which is certainly not someone who was, in fact, injured by a military strike.

If it helps, I suggest, looking at the footage again. After the individual in the tan jacket is shown walking around on his own at approx. 2:45 of the clip, keep watching the background, when he picks up what looks like a pole of some sort and is angrily waving it. That is not, to my knowledge, how a person injured in a military strike walks, moves or otherwise is able to carry himself.

If you see something different, or if I am missing something, please enlighten me. I am not unwilling to admit a mistake if it can be shown that I have don so.

6 Gus  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 4:54:20pm

Israelycool? This is a featured page?

Oh look here's what I found there:

The Problem With Obama’s Speech
Aussie Dave | May 20, 2011 | 14 comments

There are voices out there that Obama’s speech was no biggie.

For instance, Charles Johnson of LGF – who has slowly been driving towards Moonbat mountain for a while now – had this to say:

Note: he didn’t say “1967 borders,” he didn’t “side with the Palestinians,” and he absolutely did still insist on mutually agreed swaps and secure borders for both countries. It’s nothing but a re-wording of the same position the US has taken for many years.

WTF is going on with LGF since this Gaza dog wagging began? Seriously, WTF.

8 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 5:21:34pm

re: #5 sliv_the_eli

Charles: I'm not sure on what basis you make that statement other than the identity of the person who posted the clip -- which, by the way, is a clip aired by the BBC, not the blogger's own recreation of events. Unless the BBC is suddenly editing their footage to portray the Palestinians in a bad light in this regard, the video shows what it shows, which is certainly not someone who was, in fact, injured by a military strike.

If it helps, I suggest, looking at the footage again. After the individual in the tan jacket is shown walking around on his own at approx. 2:45 of the clip, keep watching the background, when he picks up what looks like a pole of some sort and is angrily waving it. That is not, to my knowledge, how a person injured in a military strike walks, moves or otherwise is able to carry himself.

If you see something different, or if I am missing something, please enlighten me. I am not unwilling to admit a mistake if it can be shown that I have don so.

I've already explained my objection to the claims about this video, very clearly. You cannot assume that the clips are in chronological sequence. There are cuts.

I don't know how much clearer I can be.

9 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 5:24:19pm

re: #6 Gus

Israelycool? This is a featured page?

Oh look here's what I found there:

WTF is going on with LGF since this Gaza dog wagging began? Seriously, WTF.

I know.

10 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 5:25:06pm

re: #6 Gus

Israelycool? This is a featured page?

Oh look here's what I found there:

The Problem With Obama’s Speech
Aussie Dave | May 20, 2011 | 14 comments

There are voices out there that Obama’s speech was no biggie.

For instance, Charles Johnson of LGF – who has slowly been driving towards Moonbat mountain for a while now – had this to say:

Note: he didn’t say “1967 borders,” he didn’t “side with the Palestinians,” and he absolutely did still insist on mutually agreed swaps and secure borders for both countries. It’s nothing but a re-wording of the same position the US has taken for many years.

WTF is going on with LGF since this Gaza dog wagging began? Seriously, WTF.

I know.

11 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 5:25:41pm

Oops, didn't mean to post that twice. But I really do know. WTF indeed.

12 Gus  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 5:28:10pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

Oops, didn't mean to post that twice. But I really do know. WTF indeed.

I've been staying away for the most part. Trying to control myself as much as possible. Lurking here and there. Don't like it. Don't like it at all.

13 Gus  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 5:31:16pm

Crap. Just heard some explosions from inside Gaza. Terrifying.

14 Skandal  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 5:52:51pm

re: #12 Gus

In all sincerity I have absolutely no idea what you and Charles are referring to. Is it inappropriate to discuss the recent escalation of violence between Israel and the Palestinians?

15 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 6:03:40pm

re: #14 Skandal

No, of course it isn't inappropriate to discuss the Gaza fighting, but it's more than a little irritating to see supporters of the fascist English Defence League being linked at my site, after everything I've done to renounce them and their disgusting ilk.

16 Skandal  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 6:13:27pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

I wasn't aware that was happening and I understand now and could not agree more. Thank you. Discussions about the merit of Israel's actions is most worthy of debate but introducing arguments from an openly racist organization such as the English Defence League is beyond the pale. Thanks again.

17 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 6:27:54pm

I was just at an anti-Israel demonstration in San Francisco. Over an amplified loudspeaker, several speakers denounced Israel, Zionists, called us baby killers and enablers of genocide. Young men, with scarves wrapped around their faces flipped us off, "invited" us over to get beaten and screamed "kill the f*cking Jews." Nearby were young Muslim women, standing silently, holding International ANSWER signs, while a rather vocal Arab woman tried to (unsuccessfully) breach the barricade when someone from our side blasted back with his own loudspeaker, "Free Gaza From Hamas." SFPD was quick to recognize her hostile behavior.

The usual suspects were there: Code Pink, International ANSWER, a lone environmentalist protesting against fracking (seriously, not making this up), QUIT (Queers Undermining Israeli Terror - pure cognitive dissonance), plus some regular faces I've seen at past events from known communist groups.

The rhetoric is the same: blame Israel, kill the Jews, Palestine will be free, blah blah blah.

18 Buck  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 8:32:02pm

re: #17 Eclectic Infidel

I wonder if anyone is interested in renouncing Code Pink, International ANSWER and their disgusting ilk?

19 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Nov 16, 2012 9:29:29pm

re: #18 Buck

I wonder if anyone is interested in renouncing Code Pink, International ANSWER and their disgusting ilk?

Nah. Not in the Bay Area. Par for the course for progressive groups to bash Jews and Israel.

20 Varek Raith  Sat, Nov 17, 2012 4:43:56am

re: #18 Buck

I wonder if anyone is interested in renouncing Code Pink, International ANSWER and their disgusting ilk?

They are a small minority of nutters.
Fuck em.

21 Varek Raith  Sat, Nov 17, 2012 4:45:10am

re: #19 Eclectic Infidel

Par for the course for people like you to smear progressives.
But hey, knock yourself out.
RON PAUL!
Oh, wait. He and his followers are pretty anti Israel too.
Progressives!

22 dragonath  Sat, Nov 17, 2012 6:17:29am

I don't think Eclectic Infidel is a conservative.

But, seriously, going out of the way to find the worst demonstration in San Francisco? If you're going to view that as the prism through which all muslim and leftist thought passes...

23 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 17, 2012 11:33:55am

re: #19 Eclectic Infidel

Nah. Not in the Bay Area. Par for the course for progressive groups to bash Jews and Israel.

There are lots of progressive Jews in the Bay Area.

24 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Nov 17, 2012 2:09:42pm

re: #21 Varek Raith

Par for the course for people like you to smear progressives.
But hey, knock yourself out.
RON PAUL!
Oh, wait. He and his followers are pretty anti Israel too.
Progressives!

I'm not making any of this up. At Friday's rally there was a broad - very broad - coalition of traditional liberal groups. The interesting part is this: if no one was concerned with the current conflict, many on the pro-Israel side would also be in agreement regarding marriage equality, environmental protections, global warming, access to safe and legal abortions, etc. On the issue of the region formerly known as Palestine? Not so much.

I identify as liberal, which puts me in an interesting place in THIS region.

25 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 17, 2012 2:17:06pm

re: #24 Eclectic Infidel

I'm not making any of this up. At Friday's rally there was a broad - very broad - coalition of traditional liberal groups. The interesting part is this: if no one was concerned with the current conflict, many on the pro-Israel side would also be in agreement regarding marriage equality, environmental protections, global warming, access to safe and legal abortions, etc. On the issue of the region formerly known as Palestine? Not so much.

So in other words, many on the pro-Israel side are progressives. Yeah?

26 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Nov 17, 2012 7:35:56pm

re: #22 dragonath

I don't think Eclectic Infidel is a conservative.

But, seriously, going out of the way to find the worst demonstration in San Francisco? If you're going to view that as the prism through which all muslim and leftist thought passes...

This is a common demonstration in San Francisco. COMMON.

27 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Nov 17, 2012 7:37:22pm

re: #25 Obdicut

So in other words, many on the pro-Israel side are progressives. Yeah?

Yes Obdicut - but once we identify with Israel, we are literally type cast as "oppressors" and "baby killers."


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 Frank says:

It has never mattered to me that thirty million people might think I'm wrong. The number of people who thought Hitler was right did not make him right... Why do you necessarily have to be wrong jus because a few million people think you are? -- Why they don't play my stuff on the radio
From the Real Frank Zappa Book (1989 Poseidon Press)