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1 Buck  Sat, Nov 17, 2012 8:32:49pm

I have to say that this is complete bullshit.

It is in the same vein as "The USA created Osama bin Laden" or "Saddam Hussein" was created by the CIA.

Tolerating is possible. However that is being too tolerant... not 'spawning'.

2 Buck  Sat, Nov 17, 2012 9:02:14pm

As if there is a way to 'curb' the muslim brotherhood.

3 Cap'n Magic  Sat, Nov 17, 2012 9:07:37pm

I'm actually surprised that the Journal actually went ahead with this piece given Murdoch's latest tweet.

Then again, how much different is Israel's apartheid against the Palestinians in Gaza vs. the South Africans apartheid regime?

4 Buck  Sat, Nov 17, 2012 9:18:49pm

There is NO Israel apartheid against the Palestinians.

However if you really ask the question then here is the answer.

South Africans apartheid was the minority (whites) using law to dominate the majority blacks.
In Israel the majority (Jews) created a legal system that is absolutely fair to everyone, and not based on race, creed, colour or sex. In fact anything less is against the law.

South Africans apartheid was about an official policy of racial segregation.
In Israel there is no an official policy of racial segregation, or even religious supremacy. Both would be illegal.

South Africans apartheid there is a lot of separation between ethnic groups.
In Israel there is no separation between ethnic groups.

So to sum up, There is NO Israeli Apartheid. NO Israeli "separation between ethnic groups". NO Israeli "ethnic cleansing".

Thank you for your attention.

5 Cap'n Magic  Sat, Nov 17, 2012 9:27:06pm

re: #2 Buck

Given the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood stood up to Britian's rule in Egypt during the 1930s, one must be careful to discern what is one man's freedom fighters vs. one man's terrorist, lest they bite the hand that feeds them down the road once the suppporting country's objectives are met (sorry, Destro, but history is replete with US meddling in foreign affairs of other countries causing damaging blowbacks when the US cuts and runs.)

And many religious conservatives have stated that they find more in common with Sunni Muslim clerics than with Michael Moore-that this may come as a shock to some is actually quite humorous as there is more in common between Christianity and Islam than differences.

6 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 5:38:12am

re: #5 Cap'n Magic

You entirely failed to address what Buck actually said. What he was addressing was the Muslim Brotherhood's overall commitment to Radical Islam (sometimes called Political Islam). Buck was stating his disbelief that such an Islamist organization could ever be simply 'curbed', as the ideology that drives it will not long abide by limits set by a state.

7 miclaine  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 8:26:17am

re: #3 Cap'n Magic

I'm actually surprised that the Journal actually went ahead with this piece given Murdoch's latest tweet.

Then again, how much different is Israel's apartheid against the Palestinians in Gaza vs. the South Africans apartheid regime?

Uh - COMPLETELY DIFFERENT - NON-EXISTENT AS A MATTER OF FACT

8 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 8:32:12am

re: #3 Cap'n Magic

Then again, how much different is Israel's apartheid against the Palestinians in Gaza vs. the South Africans apartheid regime?

Very, since it's not apartheid.

9 lostlakehiker  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 9:34:09am

WSJ is letting Avner Cohen make his case that one thing led to another.

"How Bismark created the Soviet Union".

"How Harriet Beecher Stowe started the civil war".

"How Ronald Reagan created al Qaeda".

The future is hard to predict, especially in advance. Surely Israel did not intend that Hamas should come to rule in Gaza. But one thing does lead to another, often by paths beyond human wit to foresee. Or by improbable paths.

It's possible that in hindsight, tracing the birth and growth of Hamas, Israel's policies have played their part.

Any nation that could steer clear of the law of unintended consequences would lead a charmed life. It's not yet been done.

10 Destro  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 10:25:18pm

re: #1 Buck

re: #3 Cap'n Magic

re: #5 Cap'n Magic

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

re: #8 Obdicut

re: #9 lostlakehiker

The future is hard to predict, especially in advance. Surely Israel did not intend that Hamas should come to rule in Gaza. But one thing does lead to another, often by paths beyond human wit to foresee. Or by improbable paths.

Why is anyone doubting this? The west has been using Islamist to fight Soviet aligned powers since the Reagan era. And there is always the assumption they can be disarmed and packed away afterwards (and the blowback is always forgotten).

11 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 4:28:00am

re: #8 Obdicut

Very, since it's not apartheid.

Destro, since you downdinged this, you might give a shot at explaining how Israel is engaging in apartheid.

12 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 4:35:00am

re: #10 Destro

Why is anyone doubting this? The west has been using Islamist to fight Soviet aligned powers since the Reagan era. And there is always the assumption they can be disarmed and packed away afterwards (and the blowback is always forgotten).

I know you like to shoehorn everything into that point of view, but the support Hamas got from Israel wasn't because Hamas were fighting 'soviet aligned powers', it's that they were fighting the PLO. The PLO was 'soviet aligned', but that's not why Israel gave them the support that they did.

Just as Romney's advisers tended to see everything though the lends of the Cold War, it kind of seems like that's your point of view too, Destro.

13 Destro  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:34:23am

he PLO was 'soviet aligned', but that's not why Israel gave them the support that they did.

The PLO was not soviet aligned?

What are you, bat shit stupid? By the 1970s, the PLO was linked to Soviet counter insurgency efforts and supplied with funding and training.

14 Destro  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:51:21am

re: #12 Obdicut

PS: Sorry for calling you batshit stupid. But to deny the PLO was aligned to the eastern bloc is just nutso.

15 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:58:25am

re: #13 Destro

Downding for the ugly, uncalled for, insult.

16 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:52:59am

re: #13 Destro

he PLO was 'soviet aligned', but that's not why Israel gave them the support that they did.

The PLO was not soviet aligned?

What are you, bat shit stupid? By the 1970s, the PLO was linked to Soviet counter insurgency efforts and supplied with funding and training.

Try reading.

The PLO was 'soviet aligned', but that's not why Israel gave [Hamas] the support that they did.

17 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:53:15am

re: #14 Destro

PS: Sorry for calling you batshit stupid. But to deny the PLO was aligned to the eastern bloc is just nutso.

That's cool man. The problem is I didn't do that, cutie-pie.

18 Destro  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:56:47pm

re: #15 Dark_Falcon

re: #16 Obdicut

Downding myself for misreading if I could. But I find this American denial of their continued boosting of Islamic radicals against leftist regimes fucking fascinating.

19 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 2:28:26pm

re: #18 Destro

re: #16 Obdicut

Downding myself for misreading if I could. But I find this American denial of their continued boosting of Islamic radicals against leftist regimes fucking fascinating.

You admitted your error and apologized. You and I are straight on this one.

20 Flavia  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 9:42:53pm

re: #3 Cap'n Magic

Then again, how much different is Israel's apartheid against the Palestinians in Gaza vs. the South Africans apartheid regime?

Um, how about that Israel's is imaginary & the other wasn't? But, wait, you knew that before you posted....

21 Buck  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:46:02am

re: #10 Destro

The west has been using Islamist to fight Soviet aligned powers since the Reagan era

Using is different than creating them.

22 Major Tom  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:34:17pm

re: #21 Buck

Using is different than creating them.

Perpetuating then.

23 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 2:47:52pm

re: #18 Destro

re: #16 Obdicut

Downding myself for misreading if I could. But I find this American denial of their continued boosting of Islamic radicals against leftist regimes fucking fascinating.

What denial?

And remember, you're American. So it's not "Their".


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