Pages

5 comments

Jump to bottom
1 researchok  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 4:21:27pm

You are such a provocateur.
//

Good catch.

2 Destro  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:39:32pm

Clause 3 of the Atlantic Charter reads: Third, they respect the right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they will live; and they wish to see sovereign rights and self government restored to those who have been forcibly deprived of them then became one of the eight cardinal principal points of the Charter all people had a right to self-determination.

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 1514:
Conscious of the need for the creation of conditions of stability and well-being and peaceful and friendly relations based on respect for the principles of equal rights and self-determination of all peoples, and of universal respect for, and observance of, human rights and fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language or religion,

Recognizing the passionate yearning for freedom in all dependent peoples and the decisive role of such peoples in the attainment of their independence.

3 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:46:25pm

I don't have any problem with what Scheuer said there, but he could have done better here...

But Scheuer seemed to go off script again, warning that Iran was not necessarily responsible for actions Hamas took against Israel.

“Hamas has alienated themselves from the Iranians, they’ve moved out of Syria,” the former CIA analyst explained. “Hamas would have always much preferred to have worked with Sunni people rather than Shia. And now they have those people to work with, plus they have all the arms they want coming out of Libya and Tunisia after the Arab spring. Their reliance on the Iranians is much less than it used to be.”

He might have mentioned that Islamic Jihad is now the direct arm of Iran in Gaza and the West Bank. Without mentioning that what he said makes it sound like Iran has lost all influence with the Palestinians which isn't really true. A nitpick maybe but a valid one.

But wait...

The author of the article at RS, David Edwards, then just slips this little paragraph in at the end of the article...

For years, Israel has contended that one of the largest obstacles preventing peace is that Hamas has refused to recognize Israel’s “right to exist.” During 1988 negotiations, then-Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat first recognized Israel’s “right to exist in peace and security for all.”

WTF is that? What does Yasser Arafat have to do with Hamas? This paragraph is an intentional conflation of two completely separate issues that makes it sound as if Hamas has recognized Israels right to exist when it most definitely has not!

4 lostlakehiker  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:53:50pm

What is a right?

It's nothing tangible. Its tangible traces in the physical world are patterns of thinking in other people. If people generally hold that you "have a right", that's something real in the real world. You'll probably be allowed to do what you "have a right" to do.

Another sort of tangible trace of "having a right" is that the people who say "I (or we) have a right" are likely to vigorously insist on going ahead with whatever it is they have a right to do or to be, even if others don't like it. Even if it comes to fighting. And they're signaling determination.

What Scheuer is saying, when you strip it down to its basics, is that if somebody somewhere can destroy Israel, he won't fight to stop it.

For my own part, I don't hold that there is an inarguable right for any self-declared group to set itself up as a nation-state. The Confederacy did not have a right to exist, for instance. Nor did Vichy France. Grey areas---did Estonia have a right to exist? Not really. The Soviet Union had the means to stop them, and nobody was going to fight over it. Only when Soviet Union/Russia decided it didn't matter to them did they relax and inform Estonia that they were welcome to go their own way.

Long established nations, especially nations that are not empires incorporating subject peoples, tend in my view to "have a right to exist". I won't go join their wars, but I will speak up for them and vote in favor of U.S. policies that work toward their continued existence. Even if that means fighting, e.g. to prevent Saddam's Iraq from annexing Kuwait as a province. In that sense, I hold that Israel has a right to exist.

5 researchok  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:48:47pm

re: #2 Destro

OK....

LOL


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

TwitterFacebook

Turn off all ads for a full year by subscribing!
For about 33 cents a day (per month) or 22 cents a day (per year), our subscription option turns off all advertisements at LGF!
Read more...

► LGF Headlines

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Articles

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Pages

  • Loading...

► Top 10 Comments

  • Loading...

► Bottom Comments

  • Loading...

► Recent Comments

  • Loading...

► Tools/Info

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form
LGF Pages

This button leads to the main index of LGF Pages, our user-submitted articles. You can post your own LGF Pages simply by registering a free account with us.

Create a Page

This is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.

Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.

Last updated: 2014-03-07 2:19 pm PST

LGF User's Guide
Recent Pages
Randall Gross
U.S. Senate CIA ‘Torture’ Report Summary to Be Declassified in a Few Days: Officials
The White House in the next few days is expected to declassify the long-awaited summary of a U.S. Senate committee study of a CIA program that used "enhanced interrogations" and secret prisons to extract information from captured militants, several ...

2 minutes ago
Views: 15 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Romantic Heretic
‘Conservatives’ see the world differently
Interesting. I came on to LGF and of course the first thing I saw was the article on Twitchy. Which immediately made me think of the article my news aggregator discovered this morning, One on a psychological study on the ...

6 minutes ago
Views: 6 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
_RememberTonyC
Qatar, Bergdahl, and Hamas
One thing we have learned in the current conflict is that Hamas has three main sponsors: Turkey, Iran, and Qatar. So when Bergdahl was released and the five taliban bigs were released into the "custody" of Qatar, we basically handed ...

10 hours, 25 minutes ago
Views: 91 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Skip Intro
Outside Money Drives a Deluge of Political Ads
WASHINGTON -- An explosion of spending on political advertising on television -- set to break $2 billion in congressional races, with overall spots up nearly 70 percent since the 2010 midterm election -- is accelerating the rise of moneyed ...

1 day, 20 hours ago
Views: 199 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 4 • Rating: 3
Rightwingconspirator
Washington, D.C., Handgun Carry Ban Is Ruled Unconstitutional
I agree. Bans are not an option. Jurisdictions like DC will just have to deal with the fact that regulation is the path. Bans don't work. Bans are illegal and unwise. It's simple. we as a society have chosen to ...

2 days, 16 hours ago
Views: 510 • Comments: 95
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 5
FemNaziBitch
Safer Era Tests Wisdom of ‘Broken Windows’ Focus on Minor Crime
While the apparent chokehold fueled much of the initial public outcry, community leaders have begun asking whether focusing police officers so intently on such petty offenses makes sense in a city that is far different and far safer than ...

5 days ago
Views: 360 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
Mentis Fugit
Frisson
Over at the quirky Riddled blog, I encountered this music video link. I have the album, but I had last listened long ago, and I had forgotten the lyrics. The lengthy, moody intro slowly drew me back thirty five years, ...

1 week ago
Views: 265 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
BadExampleMan
The painful futility of war
This makes me furious. These men pledged their loyalty to their country and their country betrayed them. It treated them as disposable, throwing their lives away in a war that was premised on lies, that was chosen gleefully, and that ...

1 week, 2 days ago
Views: 434 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 1
MichaelJ
Mick Fanning Wins J-Bay Open 2014
More: MICK FANNING WINS J-BAY OPEN Finals day for the contest was run in perfect Supertubes conditions. Too bad Kelly Slater and Jordy Smith were eliminated in lesser quality surf - it would have been amazing to have both of ...

1 week, 2 days ago
Views: 349 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2
Thrazidun
Paris: Jews Fight Back Against Islamist Mob - Jewish World - News - Arutz Sheva
More: Paris: Jews Fight Back Against Islamist Mob - Jewish World - News - Arutz Sheva

1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,013 • Comments: 5
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2
 Frank says:

There's no question in my mind -- the beer, the ballons and the bunting all start with "B" for some cosmic reason. -- Words that star with B and remind him of the Republican party. The Real Frank Zappa Book. Page 238