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1 Buck  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:09:35am

Just so we are clear, they are not dragged from their homes, kicking and screaming.

And they are paid overtime. And they can take their holiday on another day if they wish.

I know that is what I did when I was in that position. I often worked on holidays for extra 'bucks'. Sometimes it was holidays I didn't care about (Christmas) and sometimes it was New Years Eve.

If you open your eyes you will see a lot of people working. Gas Stations, convenience stores, restaurants, movie theaters, radio stations....

You want to get money from the ATM? There is a crew that will load and reload it.

2 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:14:38am

re: #1 Buck

Just so we are clear, they are not dragged from their homes, kicking and screaming.

And they are paid overtime. And they can take their holiday on another day if they wish.

I know that is what I did when I was in that position. I often worked on holidays for extra 'bucks'. Sometimes it was holidays I didn't care about (Christmas) and sometimes it was New Years Eve.

If you open your eyes you will see a lot of people working. Gas Stations, convenience stores, restaurants, movie theaters, radio stations....

You want to get money from the ATM? There is a crew that will load and reload it.

You are wrong. Walmart workers are not offered the option to choose a different work schedule, and they are not paid overtime or time and a half, just regular pay (which is shit pay).

The cashier at the store where I normally shop told me that she doesn't have a choice about her work schedule, but at least she is paid time and a half.

3 Buck  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:24:14am

re: #2 Vicious Babushka

You are wrong. Walmart workers are not offered the option to choose a different work schedule, and they are not paid overtime or time and a half, just regular pay (which is shit pay).

The cashier at the store where I normally shop told me that she doesn't have a choice about her work schedule, but at least she is paid time and a half.

It really is not that simple. Don't drink the Union kool aid so quickly.

Wal-Mart is required by federal law to pay the overtime. And for the most part they do. Is there abuse uncovered from time to time? Of course. there is in every segment.
However the company policy has been made clear. They get overtime on holidays, and even paid for holidays (under certain conditions).

5 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:29:14am

re: #3 Buck

It really is not that simple. Don't drink the Union kool aid so quickly.

Wal-Mart is required by federal law to pay the overtime. And for the most part they do. Is there abuse uncovered from time to time? Of course. there is in every segment.

However the company policy has been made clear. They get overtime on holidays, and even paid for holidays (under certain conditions).

Walmart totally does not pay their workers overtime. Have they been reported for failure to comply with federal law? Sure, but Walmart says fuck you.

6 calochortus  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:35:22am

Here's a suggestion. Don't shop on Thanksgiving-or in the wee small hours of Black Friday. No customers? Stores won't open. I'm afraid I can't exactly boycott something I've never done (including the Friday shopping part) but except in case of dire emergency I just don't shop on holidays.

(And no Buck, a lot of retail workers don't get a choice and they don't necessarily get extra pay. There is no requirement that they do so as long as it doesn't involve overtime. That's why part-timers are so popular in retail. It gives merchants a lot of flexibility.)

7 Buck  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:36:18am

re: #4 jaunte

US Department of Labor recovers $4.83 million in back wages, damages for more than 4,500 Wal-Mart workers

Actually the proves my case. wal-mart, USA corp. has around 1.5 million employees. I said there was abuses, just like any organization that big.

5000 out of 1 million? Is that 2%? AND US Department of Labor has made it clear that they are monitoring the situation.

8 Buck  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:40:04am

I am just saying that almost everyone goes through this.

I know I did. I was happy to have a job.

9 jaunte  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:41:30am

re: #7 Buck

Off the clock work is a growing problem in the U.S.; successfully resolved lawsuits only show the tip of the iceberg. It's abusive treatment of the workers by management.
[Link: usatoday30.usatoday.com...]

10 Buck  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:44:16am

re: #9 jaunte

Off the clock work is a growing problem in the U.S.; successfully resolved lawsuits only show the tip of the iceberg. It's abusive treatment of the workers by management.
[Link: usatoday30.usatoday.com...]

Of course. And it is not just by Wal-Mart. There are abuses, and laws to combat them.

I am going to take a break to cry (happy tears) as Private First Class James Delano just returned home from Afghanistan, proposed to his girlfriend at the airport, and all on Thanksgiving. (I am such a sucker for these sort of TV News segments).

11 dragonfire1981  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:53:20am

I know in Ontario where I used to work mandated holidays apply only to full time workers. None of my part time jobs gave me paid time off.

Also, any holidays I did work were paid a time and a half.

Another interesting observation: Although it's changing now, when I first came to the U.S. in 2008, very few Canadian businesses outside of Gas stations were open 24 hrs. Even fast food restaurants and Wal-Mart would close nightly.

A big thing I noticed in this country is that longer hours (especially at places that pay already low wages) are becoming more common.

I have a full time job now which does give paid days off but because of the nature of the business (year round attraction) I don't usually get Holidays off. I am off today because management was nice enough to shuffle the schedule so most of our department didn't have to work, but I will have to work Christmas (although I'll be done by 9 am which is not too bad).

In Canada it used to be that businesses were prohibited by law from opening on holidays, but of course the lobbying groups have been steadily chipping away at that.

Once again it all comes down to money. More operating hours usually means more sales and more profit. Unfortunately it's the bottom end workers who pay the biggest price for that shift.

12 Amory Blaine  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 2:23:31pm

So maybe they weren't dragged kicking and screaming to work on Thanksgiving. The point of the article is that Americans don't get much vacation or holidays off. What fucking good is it to live in the "best" nation in the world where half the people don't get time off to spend with their families or millions go without healthcare. Doesn't that bother you as a member of the "family values" tribe?

13 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 2:38:39pm

re: #12 Amory Blaine

So maybe they weren't dragged kicking and screaming to work on Thanksgiving. The point of the article is that Americans don't get much vacation or holidays off. What fucking good is it to live in the "best" nation in the world where half the people don't get time off to spend with their families or millions go without healthcare. Doesn't that bother you as a member of the "family values" tribe?

I'm more grateful for the Walgreens I visited being open, and I'm glad the law does not mandate it be closed. Should Walgreen's arrange schedules so that its employees have at least one of two holidays off? Yes. But that ought not to be mandated.

As for Wal-Mart's breaking of the law, they should be punished for it. That punishment to include the prosecution of executives for fraud for cheating employees out of their overtime as a matter of policy. Send a VP to the Grey-Bar Hilton and the abuses will be reduced.

14 Alexzander  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 2:50:39pm

Last year I worked Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years without any additional pay. I also worked both Saturday and Sunday all year.

It wasn't in retail however; thank God.

15 Kdizzle  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 3:58:18pm

re: #1 Buck

You have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

I know you are Canadian and this seems to have given you simultaneously resentment of being born into a society that values both capitalism and the rights of the common working class, and simultaneously an ignorance of the plight of those same common working classmen through the success of that society(meaning that in fact your society is a victim of its own success which causes it to sometimes produce ignorant and callous nitwits like yourself from time to time).

Unless you have ever actually had to work a 12 hour shift on both a Saturday and Sunday at a major retailer without overtime/doubletime/holliday pay, than maybe you should keep your goddamn mouth shut.

16 Kdizzle  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 4:07:13pm

re: #10 Buck

Of course. And it is not just by Wal-Mart. There are abuses, and laws to combat them

No not really. Not anymore. Mostly because American versions of yourself that tend to vote in the various toadies for our class of industrial and financial aristocrats.

Those laws are being repealed through "right to work" legislation or left impotent and unenforced by political appointees of said toadies.

I am going to take a break to cry (happy tears) as Private First Class James Delano just returned home from Afghanistan, proposed to his girlfriend at the airport, and all on Thanksgiving. (I am such a sucker for these sort of TV News segments).

I guess we're all friends again.

17 jaunte  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 5:19:48pm

I won’t shop on Thanksgiving

Lorraine Berry:
I don't blame corporations for the consumer forces that warped our national holiday. I blame us.
...
...it is that much more dispiriting to see the holiday warped into a kind of mad consumer grab. “Black Friday” (which has now been pushed back to Thursday by itchy retailers) has become a national rallying cry: Spend more, save businesses, make your family happy. Everyone wins! And meanwhile, we ruin a whole class of workers’ Thanksgiving so we can save $10 on a piece of plastic crap, or bring home yet another piece of technology that we think will make our lives easier.

18 jaunte  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 5:29:03pm

A Demos study released Nov. 21 says that raising the salary of all full time workers at large retailers to $25,000 per year would lift more than 700,000 people out of poverty, at a cost of only a 1% price increase for customers.

Retail's Hidden Potential: How Raising Wages Would Benefit Workers, the Industry and the Overall Economy

The Effect on Economic Growth and Job Creation
The economy would grow and 100,000 or more new jobs would be created.Families living in or near poverty spend close to 100 percent of their income just to meet their basic needs, so when they receive an extra dollar in pay, they spend it on goods or services that were out of reach before. This ongoing unmet need makes low-income households more likely to spend new earnings immediately – channeling any addition to their income right back into the economy, creating growth and jobs. This “multiplier effect” means that a higher wage standard for retail workers will also generate new jobs. Our estimates of the job creation effect are derived from widely accepted multipliers on consumer spending.4 It includes the benefits of a raise on disposable income and accounts for the impact of any additional costs to the firm and the potential for businesses to pass-through the cost of decent wages onto their customers through higher prices."

19 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 23, 2012 2:10:32am

We still buy into the American dream that anyone can raise themselves by working harder. There was a time when that was a case. And I never used to mind doing a 12-5 shift at the Montgomery Wards on a Sunday, because at least I got paid time and a half for it.

Wal-Mart employment policies demonstrate that all you do nowadays is burn out faster on the treadmill.

It is unconsionable that someone working full-time in America should still find themselves eligible for food stamps or medical services, those bills should be charged directly to the employer.

Instead, those costs are "socialized" among the rest of us...

And we hates socialsm, doesn't we preciouss?

20 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Nov 23, 2012 4:09:00am

re: #19 Sol Berdinowitz

We still buy into the American dream that anyone can raise themselves by working harder. There was a time when that was a case. And I never used to mind doing a 12-5 shift at the Montgomery Wards on a Sunday, because at least I got paid time and a half for it.

Wal-Mart employment policies demonstrate that all you do nowadays is burn out faster on the treadmill.

It is unconsionable that someone working full-time in America should still find themselves eligible for food stamps or medical services, those bills should be charged directly to the employer.

Instead, those costs are "socialized" among the rest of us...

And we hates socialsm, doesn't we preciouss?

We hates tricky Waltonses.


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 Frank says:

Let's not be too tough on our own ignorance. It's the thing that makes America great.